Report Max Fun 35 Keel Failure - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-12-2007
max-on's Avatar
1997 Dehler 33
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 745
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
max-on will become famous soon enough
Report Max Fun 35 Keel Failure

After reading the Tartan / C&C discussion I kept thinking about the responsibilities of a builder to the owners to build a quality product. After all, it is a boat, not a washing machine or a piece of patio furniture, and whether we are ten miles from the coast or 500 miles offshore, we put our trust and lives, and the lives of our family and friends, in the construction of the boat.

This is copy of material on the front page of SA today, and I think the linked report illustrates just how serious things can go wrong and the associated consequences - the loss of life.

A Look at What Happened

When the Max Fun 35's first came along, we thought they really looked great - a nice fast sport boat with some interior. Proving that looks can be deceiving, here is a very sobering report on the keel failure, capsize, and loss of life from a Max Fun 35 named Hooligan 5 from the UK. It is a very comprehensive report that uncovers some startling short cuts, lack of proper engineering and poor build standards that resulted in this tragedy.




(I hope this site and members are not offended that I am posting material from another sailing site)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 09-12-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Same thing happened with Bavaria sailboats not too long ago...
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 09-12-2007
Classic30's Avatar
Once known as Hartley18
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,268
Thanks: 19
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Classic30 will become famous soon enough Classic30 will become famous soon enough
I guess the moral of the story is: If you're going to buy a boat and do some serious sailing (not just cruising the marinas within a few NMs), buy an old, solid boat - the older the better - built in the days when everything was oversized and not just built to a price.

...Like a Hartley! :-)

--Cameron
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 09-12-2007
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,855
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Holly s*****...have you noticed how similar that keel is to mine??

And how similar my boat is to that one?

I have a similar keel attachment arrangment, with the tapered box and all, but my keel is a one piece core beam, not welded as that one, so I'm ok, I hope...

However..next year its coming off for inspection anyway, so good time to check it.

sad...sorry for the human loss
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 09-12-2007
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,878
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 14
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Max-on...no problem here with using other sources as long as one attributes and links and only engages in "fair use" rather than any copyright violation. We're always up for an interesting story as this tragically was.

Giu...that is the first thing I thought when i looked at the blue boat in the report!
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 09-12-2007
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,855
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
I guess the moral of the story is: If you're going to buy a boat and do some serious sailing (not just cruising the marinas within a few NMs), buy an old, solid boat - the older the better - built in the days when everything was oversized and not just built to a price.

...Like a Hartley! :-)

--Cameron
That's not true, please don't say that. That's a racing boat, its designed to whitstand more forces than any other boat.

My boat, that has pretty much the same purpose can sail in higher winds, at higher speeds, higher stresses and in conditions the "good old strong boat" would be sinking, and/or reefing and motor home is not like that at all, and so aren't many of the other thousands of race boats out there.

What happen here is pure indirect negligence by the builder, that should have monitored keel-subcontractor manufacturing techniques, and didn't.

The contractor cheated, and the builder did not know..

Both are liable for this. Don't blame the boat or anything else.

Last edited by Giulietta; 09-12-2007 at 11:37 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-12-2007
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 13,867
Thanks: 5
Thanked 59 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by max-on View Post
After reading the Tartan / C&C discussion I kept thinking about the responsibilities of a builder to the owners to build a quality product. After all, it is a boat, not a washing machine or a piece of patio furniture, and whether we are ten miles from the coast or 500 miles offshore, we put our trust and lives, and the lives of our family and friends, in the construction of the boat.

This is copy of material on the front page of SA today, and I think the linked report illustrates just how serious things can go wrong and the associated consequences - the loss of life.

A Look at What Happened

When the Max Fun 35's first came along, we thought they really looked great - a nice fast sport boat with some interior. Proving that looks can be deceiving, here is a very sobering report on the keel failure, capsize, and loss of life from a Max Fun 35 named Hooligan 5 from the UK. It is a very comprehensive report that uncovers some startling short cuts, lack of proper engineering and poor build standards that resulted in this tragedy.






(I hope this site and members are not offended that I am posting material from another sailing site)

Tch Tch Tch. I'm telling. Nyah Nyah Nyah. You just want to catch up on the Double Reef / Daniel Taylor train wreck.

Memo to self - if ever you feel like calling Sway a blowhard have a quick read of a DR thread.
__________________
Andrew B

“Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.” Terry Pratchett
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-12-2007
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,855
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Giu...that is the first thing I thought when i looked at the blue boat in the report!
Cam...I guess I am safe.

You can see here the design of mine is quite different.

Mine has solid steel piece from the torpedo to the top. Its then coverd with the 2 halves in CF that shape the keel.

Then on top, there are 2 studs that cross the steel to fix the keel to the shapped structure bonded by CF to the hull.

Then on top 3 bolts make sure it goe no where...





Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-13-2007
Classic30's Avatar
Once known as Hartley18
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,268
Thanks: 19
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Classic30 will become famous soon enough Classic30 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giulietta View Post
That's not true, please don't say that. That's a racing boat, its designed to whitstand more forces than any other boat.

My boat, that has pretty much the same purpose can sail in higher winds, at higher speeds, higher stresses and in conditions the "good old strong boat" would be sinking, and/or reefing and motor home is not like that at all, and so aren't many of the other thousands of race boats out there.

What happen here is pure indirect negligence by the builder, that should have monitored keel-subcontractor manufacturing techniques, and didn't.

The contractor cheated, and the builder did not know..

Both are liable for this. Don't blame the boat or anything else.
Apologies, Guiletta - I did not mean to upset you.

I've read the report quite a while back now and from what I remember, the designer cut a few corners too - he just didn't envisage anyone cutting any more.

Having sailed on many "old boats", I, personally, would rather go to sea in one of them than one of these new "plastic-fantastics" - the designers back then (Holland, Uffa Fox, S&S, etc.) didn't have the advantages of modern glues and materials, so they made sure things were really solid.

I remember standing on the dock after the 1984 Sydney-Hobart and being amazed at the damage done to the newer yachts whilst some of older yachts were relatively unscathed.

--Cameron
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-13-2007
.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 10,855
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 12
Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Same thing happened with Bavaria sailboats not too long ago...
SD, Not the same at all. nada nothing, zilch...

Bavaria 38 Match keels were simply bolted to the hull, with minimal stiffening other than increased hull thicness where the bolts went thru. They were relying ion the kevlar mat they were installing in the other slower bavarias.

This boat has a keel box, just like mine, its an opening likle a upsidown box, that has no connection to boat inside, other than the vertical bolts.

The keel enters that box, the bavarias was flush with hull.

This keel seems to me as being well designed, but the manufacturing unfortunately was defective.

But the bavaria incident and this are completely differnt. Bavari simply had no engineering whatsoever.


Still this does not excuse the builder from its rsponsabilities. It was his job, when sub-contracting to make sure contractor works as should.

If the build was made as per design then failed, then it woulçd be the designers fault.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Apologies, Guiletta - I did not mean to upset you.
Cameron, no need to appogize, really, I was not mad, just did not agree with you, my way...sorry, But its ok..we're still friends

Last edited by Giulietta; 09-13-2007 at 01:19 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fin Keel or Shoal Keel acmecoyote General Discussion (sailing related) 11 05-06-2011 04:39 PM
My First Boat...Boat Term Question... Kacper General Discussion (sailing related) 38 09-23-2008 06:52 PM
Fixed or swing keel, which is better? TimG2 General Discussion (sailing related) 15 03-20-2008 04:36 PM
Keel Bolt Repairs Don Casey Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 11-10-2003 07:00 PM
Keel Bolt Concerns Don Casey Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-12-2003 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:08 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012