Licensing and boats - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-16-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 106 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Licensing and boats

I know we have spoken about this before (as I started it), but here again is another example of the insanity behind large motorboats and wrecklesness.

First, let me state that I do not believe a license would have necessarily stopped this. It has not stopped people driving!!! However, would a license have helped someon to understand the incredible power behind what they are driving.

These are the details from the sailboat captain as they were given to me. He was racing at night with another boat or two. THey were following all the rules. They saw a motorboat approaching at high speed (wot) for his beam. It was a 38ish foot Sea Ray cruiser (everyone knows how I love Sea Rays). He had 2 children on board and a few other adults. First, they estimated him running over 35kts. I guess that probably is not far from the truth. 35kts at night with no moon... wot is close to insanity. However, he had been heavily drinking (was quite drunk). The sailboat saw him and actively tried lighting up his sails with the spot beam. The Sea Ray veered off at the last second to head off a beam on collision (which probably saved everyones lives).

The resulting collision clipped the bow of the sailboat. I will show the damage. I did not see the damage on the Sea Ray. I was told it ripped the beam right down his boat to where you could see through it for about 10-15 feet. After he struck the boat, he punched it and headed straight for the dock. He did not even check to see if everyone at the sailboat was ok. The police caught him there, 2 hours later. They booked him for DUI, Leaving the scene, and for endangering the lives of the children.

This information is to the best of my knowledge. Incredible pics though. You can't tell from the pic, but he nearly too the whole bow off the Beneteau (36cc, I think it is).

Here ya go:











Incredible, huh!!???

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 09-16-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 106 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
BTW,

The Sea Ray was about 2 years old (a new one). WHat is that... around 375k-400k? And you cannot tell very well from the pics, but that is a stress crack going down the port side (the thin white line).

Like I said, nearly took off his entire bow.

Incredible, huh????

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 09-16-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 106 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
I am heading outta here. See y'all in the morning.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 09-16-2007
bestfriend's Avatar
Hitchin' a ride
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In my mind, I live in Oslo
Posts: 3,191
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
bestfriend is a jewel in the rough bestfriend is a jewel in the rough bestfriend is a jewel in the rough
Thats insane! And lucky.
__________________
Great men always have too much sail up. - Christopher Buckley


Vaya con Dios
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 09-17-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Just my $.02. Anyone stupid enough to put their own lives and more importantly, the lives of others, at risk have no business on the roads or the water. They should, at a minimum, have their driving and boating privileges yanked. If anyone is injured or killed by their actions, I think DUIs should be shot...
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 09-17-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,187
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Rockter will become famous soon enough
Like you say, who says a licence would have stopped that one?

He was drunk, and left the scene.

On open water he would have left you to die.

An insidious individual, and evil.

Take one step down this licencing route and you'll get raped with hurdles and taxes, ever upward, and there will always be plenty like him out there.

It's the same with the boozing and driving laws here in the UK. There is talk of the limit (80 mg/100 ml) being reduced... halved, or zero. It will not stop the boozers and killers... they will get just as drunk, and be just as reckless.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-17-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 286
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
byrondv is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockter View Post
It's the same with the boozing and driving laws here in the UK. There is talk of the limit (80 mg/100 ml) being reduced... halved, or zero. It will not stop the boozers and killers... they will get just as drunk, and be just as reckless.
You are completely right Rockter. The number of people over here in the US who have suspended driving licenses and still drive "because they need to get to work" is insane.

Of course they also drive down to the bar and then back home loaded. Not sure how they justify that one.

I would like to see more enforcement of drunk boating laws - seeing the sheriffs boat going though the channel right behind a boat with everyone holding a beer is wrong. He should be checking them out.

Maybe if people stopped identifying boating with drinking there would be less drunks on the water. Every time I have invited someone out to the boat who isn't a sailor they almost always respond with trying to ensure there will be beer. Even when we are going to go out on the Hobie 16 in high winds (25kts or so) they want to make sure we are taking a 6 pack.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-17-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 106 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
You know, I agree and dissagree.

I don't have a problem having a beer or something underway. I am cautious about it though. Typically I wait until I am at anchor and "secure" before having much more than that. But I have kids and may be a little more cautious than some.

On the other hand, when you buy a 37-38 foot cabin cruiser sea ray... you are driving a floating Mack Truck with leather. I feel there should be some serious education involved before you get out on the water. A sailboat?? I mean, I am not saying we can't hurt someone too... but the odds are that you are not going to do major damage at a max 7 knots and sailing by its nature requires more thought and consciousness than just turning the wheel (which I guess we can do too).

I have had SOOOOO many bad experiences with those boat and sport fishers running me over and having absolutely no clue what they are doing. The truth is that you can go out tomorrow (assuming you have the money) and buy a 60+ foot Hatteras, jump behind the wheel, and go - even if you have never had so much as a canoe before in your entire life!!

I guess my argument is whether having a license or a in depth training/education program in place would make boaters (esp the Sea Ray folks) more conscious about the killing power they have control of. I would like more people to be educated in right of way and basic nautical piloting, etc. Crap, how about just teaching them how to anchor to protect them and others!!??

I have been close to f/t on the water since about 1995. Almost without exception, it is the motor boaters that scare the crap out of me. A license is not going to suddenly give someone common sense or remind them of the necessity to keep some level of sobriety at 35kts at night. But at least it might help most of us/them realize the danger they put themselves and everyone else in when you get behind the wheel of a boat.

Just my thoughts.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-17-2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 286
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
byrondv is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I don't have a problem having a beer or something underway. I am cautious about it though. Typically I wait until I am at anchor and "secure" before having much more than that. But I have kids and may be a little more cautious than some.
I have no problem with a beer, or as it gets colder something with a bit more kick, while underway. I just don't understand how so many people feel that alcohol is required on a boat to have a good time.

I mean - there isn't much time to drink a beer while hiked out on the trapeze at 10kts on a Hobie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I guess my argument is whether having a license or a in depth training/education program in place would make boaters (esp the Sea Ray folks) more conscious about the killing power they have control of. I would like more people to be educated in right of way and basic nautical piloting, etc. Crap, how about just teaching them how to anchor to protect them and others!!??
I would agree that it would lead to higher expectations for boaters - but I am not sure it would change those that are really bad.

I was talking to a few people at the coffee shop, and they were complaining about how no one would let them merge in a construction zone. Turns out they were literally waiting until they were at the very end of the "lane ends" lane. They felt it was the fault of all those people they had sped past that weren't letting them in. I always thought people who did that knew they were being jackasses and didn't care. Turns out they actually think they are being more right then the rest of us because "the road is there and we are supposed to use it."

The people that do those crazy things aren't doing them because they don't know better. They are doing them because they actually think they are right in doing it. I am not sure how much a class would change that.

Of course I still think it would be worth the effort to try. I would like to think you are right that it would make a difference, but I am just not sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I have been close to f/t on the water since about 1995. Almost without exception, it is the motor boaters that scare the crap out of me. A license is not going to suddenly give someone common sense or remind them of the necessity to keep some level of sobriety at 35kts at night. But at least it might help most of us/them realize the danger they put themselves and everyone else in when you get behind the wheel of a boat.
I was sailing my Hobie Cat into the beach where it is stored, and had been on that tack for probably about 5-10min. On the right side of the Hobie beach there is the channel out to Lake Michigan. On the left side, a small channel to a marina and ramp. A powerboat turns the corner at the channel from Lake Michigan towards the Marina. I am within the marked swimming area and moving slowly towards the beach. The power boat honks his horn. I look over and figure it must just be the little kid next to the father having fun. Horn honks again and I get the middle finger.

Note: I have the right of way. I am about 25-35ft off the beach. He is motoring through the marked swimming area.

That isn't just a lack of knowledge. It is just a jackass who does what they want. I am not sure his behavior would change after a class.

Of course he wasn't really doing anything life threatening _that_ time. And maybe you are right - maybe he would be safer after a class (though probably still a jackass ).
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-17-2007
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Flagler Beach, Fl
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
CoralReefer is on a distinguished road
Civility and Common Sense, on the road and in the water, Americans used to have these quality's. I know when I was growing up people had manners, it was ma'am and sir, please and thank you and a general sincerity towards people. Some where in the 80's we lost this respect for our fellow man. Personally I think if more people sailed and took the time to see just what their missing, their thinking on life would chance dramatically. To me whether I'm sailing in the ocean or if I can't get out and just motor down the inter coastal at a speedy 6 knots the things I see that others don't because their speeding the life away... Well shame on them.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
recreational boat licensing dorourke General Discussion (sailing related) 35 06-20-2007 05:32 PM
Documenting Experience for Licensing bob_walden General Discussion (sailing related) 8 05-02-2003 05:40 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:52 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.