"You don't know how to sail, - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest Forums > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-24-2007
deniseO30's Avatar
Lies about her age
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 5,444
Thanks: 50
Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Angry "You don't know how to sail,

If you don't race, and you can't learn to be a better sailor"

"Oh REALLY?" I replied. "Oh no, we ONLY race" Was the answer… "I’m not going to get into this discussion" I thought to myself, and found something else to talk about. However, as I continued to think about this and all the things I've learned about handling my boat and things like dropping the hook, reading the weather, reading charts, knowig when to reef, etc.. I wonder how true that statement is? Then I see posts like "I hate my boat" and wonder even more.

I really don't think thread this belongs in the racing dept. Since I'm not into racing that much. I generally race on someone else's boat. (if it's not too hot, too cold, too windy etc. LOL) Now I'm far far from having yrs and yrs of sailing experiance but don't think racing is going to teach much more then I already know.

I was in a race, on a friend's boat the Saturday before last. I must admit I really enjoyed it. My arms ached for 3 days from working the mainsheet winch! I saw many boats getting knocked down in the heavy wind too! The boat I was on came in 2nd. (pretty cool! ) But I still would rather be crusing

Now when racers are gathered and all the talk is about perfs, rigs, me this, me that, you this, you that I saunter off. Really now.. I don't think I'm missing something!
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

my current "project"!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 09-24-2007
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: subject to change
Posts: 1,264
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
eryka is on a distinguished road
I guess it depends on whether you want to be a 'great sailor' or have a great life while sailing/cruising. One's about the hardware, one's about the whole package.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 09-24-2007
eherlihy's Avatar
Will work to sail. :-)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 3,158
Thanks: 71
Thanked 41 Times in 40 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
Denise,

I'm with you! I have heard the same thing when it comes to skiing...

I started the Wed. night, and now Sun. morning, racing in a Soling fleet this year. Yesterday was a great day, and to be honest, the first day that I've ever felt comfortable flying the Spinaker (in over 10 races).

But, I would much rather be cruising. I have no problem running wing on wing, and if I need more speed, I see nothing wrong with motorsailing. I don't care if I can get around the cans in the fastest time. I want to go somewhere in the boat, not round in circles. Kiling yourself for 1/2 a knot? give me a break...

This may change if I start running from Marion to Bermuda though...

Ed
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 09-24-2007
christyleigh's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: North Brookfield, Mass.
Posts: 935
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 13
christyleigh is on a distinguished road
Denise - Seems like that person equates being a 'better sailor' with making the boat go faster which of course is only a small part of sailing. His (or her) later reply that 'we only race' also suggests that this person has some tunnel vision and is only seeing a fraction of sailing or being a 'better sailor'.
__________________
Stan
'Christy Leigh'
NC 331
Wickford/Narragansett Bay RI
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 09-24-2007
labatt's Avatar
I'd rather be sailing
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The state of s/v/ Pelican
Posts: 1,901
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 8
labatt will become famous soon enough
Here's what I can say... I grew up racing on other people's boats. I thought I had a clue. I'm pretty decent with the sailing part. We bought our first boat, and now our current one. I was clueless! Get me on the water and I'll trim the hell out of a sail. Make me dock - I'm a nervous wreck! Fixing engines? The first time our engine broke I asked my son to grab me a hammer. Apparently, my wife is now the designated mechanic on the boat. I've learned more in the past year from cruising than I learned in my nine years of racing on big boats. There is soooo much more to sailing than going around the buoys. When I'm in a group of racers, I love talking about trim, performance software, new synthetics, etc. When I'm in a group of cruisers I love talking about heads, wiring, fridges and the thickness of their berth mattresses
__________________
s/v "Pelican" Passport 40 #076- Finished Cruising - for the moment -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
"Don't dream your life, live your dream" - Bob Bitchin'
"I'll see it when I believe it" - Me
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 09-24-2007
BarryL's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,536
Thanks: 3
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 11
BarryL is on a distinguished road
Sailing and Racing

Hello,

I started sailing in 2003 on a Catalina 22. Went out with an experienced friend one time. Read a lot of books (and internet web pages), practiced what I read, read more, practiced more. Moved up from the 22 to a Newport 28 (with inboard engine, marine head, water system, galley, etc.). Went out in all weather, etc. Moved up again to an O'day 35.

This year I started racing (as crew) on Wednesday nights to learn more about sailing. The owner of the boat is a very experienced sailer. I found out that I did know about sail trim, etc. but I have learned a few things that have been very beneficial - such as, to point as high as possible, the boom needs to be on the centerline of the boat. On my boat, I can't ever trim the main in tight enough to do that, it always falls off to leeward. On the race boat there were two strips of tape on the traveller, about 3" left and right of center. When you go to weather, you RAISE the traveller so the middle of the car lines up with the tape. Then, when the mainsheet is trimmed properly, the boom will be centered. The next day I did some experiments and put tape on my traveller. It helped me point a few degrees higher without a drop on speed. Nothing earth shattering, but something that did not occur to me.

I like racing on other boats - I am more of a cruiser myself, but if a simple adjustment can make the boat go faster, why not make it?

Anyway, racing can teach you a lot about sail TRIM and race tactics, but there is a lot to SAILING than racing.

Barry
__________________
Barry Lenoble
Day To Remember, 1986 O'day 35 For Sale
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110 For Sail
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 09-24-2007
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
I raced on weeknights for five years and cruised my own (larger) boat on weekends. Racing absolutely improved my cruising, because it improved my observational skills, my sail trim, my "eye" for helming, my weather sense (past X number of knots and X wave heights, the light boat I was on would not win because it would get beaten up too badly).

I also (and this is important, kids) learned how to avoid being a total screaming ******* to my crew.

So I enjoy and benefitted a great deal from racing, and my cruising has, I think, improved a lot from doing so. I am aware of many cruisers who sail somewhat inefficiently, and I wonder if it is because they never raced and never learned not only about sail trim, but about boat balance, halyard tension, rig tuning, and under what points of sail their boats would likely do best.

Racing on other peoples' boats is cheap and fun (bring crackers and cheese and a bottle of wine and you're covered, usually). Just don't get stuck with a tyrant skipper. Skippers need crew more than crew need skippers.

Lastly, if racing appeals not at all, cruise with older couples as crew. Your relative youth and strength will help some older folk continue to sail for a few more years, and you'll probably be treated very well and will learn a great deal.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 09-24-2007
retclt's Avatar
Roadkillibus Texanis
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Great State Of Texas
Posts: 1,602
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
retclt will become famous soon enough retclt will become famous soon enough
[QUOTE=deniseO30;197138]If you don't race, and you can't learn to be a better sailor" QUOTE]

Right on Denise!

That's not entirely crap but it is . . . mostly . . . sort of. It depends on the context in which it was said. If it was in a condescending way then forget about it. Racing can improve skills faster but like you said, some skill sets are the same and some aren't. How are the anchoring, navigation, or general cruising skills of a "racing only" sailor? I'm not knocking racers. It's just two different things. Some use sails as the vehicle for competition. I use them for an escape.

I had a guy tell me once that being an Ivy league school graduate made him a "better person" than the regular college guy's like me. I went to a very small Aviation college in Oklahoma. I am not a wealthy guy by any means but I will say that HE was painting the name on MY boat.

The older I get the more I realize how much time I've wasted in my life listening to know it alls.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Bob T

"I cannot not sail" - E. B. White
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 09-24-2007
deniseO30's Avatar
Lies about her age
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 5,444
Thanks: 50
Thanked 53 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
I kind of thought this would hit a nerve for many of us. Seems I was right giggle
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

my current "project"!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 09-24-2007
Jeff_H's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 6,444
Thanks: 3
Thanked 64 Times in 47 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about Jeff_H has a spectacular aura about
This is a question that does not have one single right answer. We all approach sailing from our own personal perspective, meaning we all have our own goals, tastes, talents, skills, competitiveness level, prejudices, fears, financial and time capabilities, physical limitations and so on. These unique characteristics impact what is important to each of us in sailing.

For some just being out on the water is its own reward. But for others precise boat handling and getting the most out of a boat in all kinds of winds and waves is highly prized. For those people, racing can represent the fastest way to build skills. It is not to say that an interested individual can't develop those skills while daysailing or cruising, but it is typically much harder and slower to do.

On the other hand, it often takes time off the race course to optimize those skills for any given boat. Whenever I get a new boat, or I am racing on a different boat, I try to do what I call 'labbing', which is cyclically experimenting with sail trim and steering to see how it effects the boats performance so that I learn what is fast and balanced and can reasonably quickly repeat those settings.

Cruising has its own skills and many of these rarely come into play on the race course or even bringing the boat back to the dock. Just as cruisers who have not raced may ignorantly dismiss racing as only being about speed, racers who have not cruised sometimes lack and understanding of the complexity of skillfull cruising and so may dismiss cruising skills as being unimportant.

In the end it is about how well rounded a sailor you personally would like to be. If you are only interested in a narrow focus, then pick that focus and live it, but if you wish to be well rounded then both cruising and racing have their place in developing your skills.

Respectfully,
Jeff

Last edited by Jeff_H; 09-24-2007 at 01:27 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Heavy weather sailing sailorfrank Learning to Sail 26 09-10-2013 06:32 PM
Sloop, Cutter or Ketch jsgsail Boat Review and Purchase Forum 17 12-26-2008 02:47 PM
What is the point of a traveller? dwbecker Learning to Sail 9 09-25-2006 08:35 PM
Sail Care and Cleaning Kathy Barron Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-20-2003 08:00 PM
First Sail of the Season Bruce Caldwell Seamanship Articles 0 06-05-2003 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:07 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012