Sheet winch position - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 10-15-2007
Classic30's Avatar
Once known as Hartley18
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,471
Thanks: 26
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Classic30 will become famous soon enough Classic30 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Re the cleat - cam cleats are better than others, esp clamm style. If you have 3 wraps or so on the winch the load on the cleated tail is not great... I think it would work even on the side of the block... but you could put in on a bracket to get a better lead (but it complicates the install)

Re angling... suppose you left your winches where they were and angled them inboard to 5-8 degrees. Then the approach angle to the drum would be the same 5-8 degrees even though the sheet is essentially parallel to the seat. Angling the winch can be done at any location to optimize the approach angle. Tilt the winch away from the direction of the sheet approach.

Raising the winch accomplishes the same thing but angling requires fewer long bolts (but angling also really calls for an equally wedge shaped backing plate..)
Hmm... Thanks, Ron - you have been a great help.

I'll make up a dummy pedestal and play with the mounting arrangement a bit more and post some photos when I get it sorted out - in about 6 months time at my current rate of progress!

--Cameron
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 10-17-2007
tenuki's Avatar
Helms ALee!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 1,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
tenuki will become famous soon enough
RE cleating - I'm using winchers on my Barlow #16s, don't know if they make em small enough for #15s, but man, for cleating off right at the winch they are amazing. I wouldn't be without them again. The self tailing feature is a little less so, but very helpful all if you figure out how to do it, not a substitute for the real thing, but if you can't afford it'l do.

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
member
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 10-17-2007
tenuki's Avatar
Helms ALee!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 1,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
tenuki will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Angling the winch: I'm curious - which way would I angle it? Would you mind posting a photo of your setup?
Angle it in whatever direction means the line comes into it from below the plane of it's base at about 5-8 degrees.

I don't have any picts handy but if you look at the lead of your line you can imagine it. just put the axis of the winch at 90 degrees from the line, then tilt the winch directly away from it 8 degrees keeping all the other axis equal. voila correct lead angle.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
member
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 10-17-2007
Classic30's Avatar
Once known as Hartley18
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,471
Thanks: 26
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Classic30 will become famous soon enough Classic30 will become famous soon enough
Thanks, Tenuki - I appreciate the help.

I'm going to try making up a mounting block that has an angled inside face to mount one cam cleat on...

..but sometimes when we fly the kite we leave the headsail up, so if I go for the raised winch set-up in post #13, I'm not sure how I'll cleat off the sheet that's not currently around the winch.

Any ideas?

--Cameron
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 10-18-2007
tenuki's Avatar
Helms ALee!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 1,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
tenuki will become famous soon enough
I almost got these for my spin sheets, that way winches can be freed temporarily if you need:



http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2...Category_Code=
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
member

Last edited by tenuki; 10-18-2007 at 03:30 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 10-22-2007
Classic30's Avatar
Once known as Hartley18
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,471
Thanks: 26
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Classic30 will become famous soon enough Classic30 will become famous soon enough
Cleating options

I've tried a dummy pedestal over the weekend and the winch relocation will work, but I can only fit one cleat to the inside, meaning I'll need something for either the jib or spinnaker like:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenuki View Post
I almost got these for my spin sheets, that way winches can be freed temporarily if you need:



http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant2...Category_Code=
Interesting idea... scary price!! I wonder if anyone sells them over here?

Looking through various boat reviews I've seen some set-ups with a deck-mounted cam-cleat before the winch, but (a) I'd need to raise it about 2" to be able to cleat the jib whilst the load is still on the winch and (b) you can't flick the sheet off in a hurry if sitting on the high side. I guess that's why they invented those gadgets.

Tenuki, you said you almost got them. What did you go with instead?

I'm stumped. Which should I cleat off the winch: Jib or Spinnaker?

Any other (read cheaper!) ideas??
__________________
-
"Honestly, I don't know why seamen persist in getting wrecked in some of the outlandish places they do, when they can do it in a nice place like Fiji." -- John Caldwell, "Desperate Voyage"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 10-22-2007
tenuki's Avatar
Helms ALee!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest, USA
Posts: 1,245
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
tenuki will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Tenuki, you said you almost got them. What did you go with instead?
I decided to spend a season racing and also do some singlehanded cruising and let necessity make the choice. So basically for now I'm planning on furling the headsail then tying off the genny sheets on some side cleats and using the same winches/cleats as I have for the genny for the spin. I have my spin blocks attaching to the toe rail with spectra webbing ( bluewater climbing runners ). The spin blocks have beckets and I've attached lightweight shock cord between the beckets and stanchion to hold them off the deck.

I cleat on the winch using the blue rubber winchers, I 'm actually thinking of removing my bridge deck cleats that I was using before as I never use them now.

btw I've sailed on boats that use clutches ahead of the winches for sheets, and I never really liked that, great for all the other control lines, but IMHO sheets need to be able to run totally free at a moments notice, clutches can and will jam, especially given how sheets move. Having the line captive, even in the clutch open position means that kinks/etc in the line can stop/jam it. I really like clutches for all the other control lines and have purchased 2 D1s (3 lines each) for my cabin top and all my other controls (2 halyards, vang, cunningham, and probably my spin pole topping lift and foreguy).

I'd like to be able to fly the sym spin competently single handed, but I'm not there yet, so don't yet have a clear idea what deck changes would make that easier. I'm pretty sure I want the topping lift and foreguy led back before I try it though so I have to finish the cabintop clutch project first.

So basically I've put off the decision until I can sail for a while knowing the options. Hopefully one of the options will 'pop out' after a bit of time.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
member

Last edited by tenuki; 10-22-2007 at 07:35 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 10-22-2007
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 14,604
Thanks: 67
Thanked 179 Times in 175 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
I'm stumped. Which should I cleat off the winch: Jib or Spinnaker?

Any other (read cheaper!) ideas??
Cameron

If you leave your original jib cam cleat in it's current position, (or perhaps move it to the inside of the coaming) when flying the kite with the jib up you could simply lead the jib sheet to the original cleat, and fly the kite off the winch. If the jib is up on a run like that there usually isn't too much load on the sheet and you should be able to hand that over to the cleat, and then back up to the winch at the leeward mark after dousing the kite, and before rounding and hardening up.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 10-22-2007
Classic30's Avatar
Once known as Hartley18
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 4,471
Thanks: 26
Thanked 42 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
Classic30 will become famous soon enough Classic30 will become famous soon enough
I've no idea why I didn't think of that - must be overworked or something!

I'll play with the jib sheet turning block position and see if I can leave the jib cleats where they are. I wasn't going to change the spin pole downhaul cleat position (the forward one) anyways, so it should be quite okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenuki View Post
I have my spin blocks attaching to the toe rail with spectra webbing ( bluewater climbing runners ). The spin blocks have beckets and I've attached lightweight shock cord between the beckets and stanchion to hold them off the deck.
My spin blocks are always getting caught between the toerail and the coaming. I'll do this straight away.

Thanks, guys!!
__________________
-
"Honestly, I don't know why seamen persist in getting wrecked in some of the outlandish places they do, when they can do it in a nice place like Fiji." -- John Caldwell, "Desperate Voyage"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 11-12-2007
Diva27's Avatar
overdue at Sans Souci
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Midland Ontario
Posts: 167
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 7
Diva27 is on a distinguished road
Here's a radical idea: try living without winches entirely. How much load is there on the jib sheet, with the boat 18 feet long? The jib looks pretty high cut and there's not a huge amount of overlap. I raced a Shark here in Canada for a couple seasons, a narrow 24 foot keelboat with a fractional rig and large overlap on the genoa. To make it easier for my wife when casually daysailing, I rigged 2:1 purchase sheets, so we could forget about grinding winches. (Sheet dead-ended on lead block car, up to the clew, through a Harken swivel block, back to the lead block, then into the cockpit.) I found the system surprisingly efficient. Yes, you pull twice as much line, but the distances are small and you double your mechanical advantage.
I don't think there are any winches on a Melges 24. Maybe at the Hartley scale there might be a clever way to get around the pesky things, too.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
It's Winch Servicing Time Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-17-2002 08:00 PM
It's Winch Servicing Time Tom Wood Her Sailnet Articles 0 10-17-2002 08:00 PM
Using Winches Safely Sue & Larry Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 08-18-2002 08:00 PM
Reading Flow and Making Adjustments Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 09-23-1999 08:00 PM
Reading Flow and Making Adjustments Tom Wood Cruising Articles 0 09-23-1999 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:53 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.