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  #1  
Old 10-14-2007
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Sheet winch position

The PO placed jib sheet winches on our little Hartley in the middle of the our cockpit seats, meaning my crew (the wife) has to either straddle the winch with the lazy sheet up their backside or sit squashed up against the end of the cabin - either option results in large bruises and is not all that good for general harmony afloat.

Sheet winch position-img_3245.jpg

Sheet winch position-img_3247.jpg

The three turning blocks inside the coaming are (from forward):
- Spinnakker downhaul
- Jib Sheet
- Spinnakker sheet

Can anyone suggest a better location for our winches??

Thanks,
--Cameron

Last edited by Classic30; 10-14-2007 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 10-15-2007
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I can see lots of problems with that setup besides the inconvenience of sitting around the winches.

The lead from the jib turning block to the winch itself is very flat - you must get occasional overrides unless you only ever use a single wrap during tacks.

Do your spinnaker sheets use a forward fairlead in the coaming or do they have to go out and over the coaming edge? All that stuff looks awful busy there.

As to your jib winch, I'd probably build up a pad against the coaming (inboard, as it looks like no deck area outboard the coaming), raise the winch enough for the drum to clear the coaming top, and move the jib turning block to just behind the fairlead in the forward coaming, on the seat. Then the sheet would enter the cockpit, turn on the block and up to the winch - a better angle of approach. The winch would be higher relative to someone standing on the cockpit sole and so easier to grind too, though a bit of a reach further outboard. This would allow you to preload the winch with a couple of turns without risking an override.

You'd have to relocate the jib sheet cleat too, of course, but that would clean up the cockpit seats. You would lose a bit of seat back in the area where the winch/pad would sit, but that might be easier to avoid than where it is now.

Possible?
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Old 10-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
I can see lots of problems with that setup besides the inconvenience of sitting around the winches.

The lead from the jib turning block to the winch itself is very flat - you must get occasional overrides unless you only ever use a single wrap during tacks.

Do your spinnaker sheets use a forward fairlead in the coaming or do they have to go out and over the coaming edge? All that stuff looks awful busy there.

As to your jib winch, I'd probably build up a pad against the coaming (inboard, as it looks like no deck area outboard the coaming), raise the winch enough for the drum to clear the coaming top, and move the jib turning block to just behind the fairlead in the forward coaming, on the seat. Then the sheet would enter the cockpit, turn on the block and up to the winch - a better angle of approach. The winch would be higher relative to someone standing on the cockpit sole and so easier to grind too, though a bit of a reach further outboard. This would allow you to preload the winch with a couple of turns without risking an override.

You'd have to relocate the jib sheet cleat too, of course, but that would clean up the cockpit seats. You would lose a bit of seat back in the area where the winch/pad would sit, but that might be easier to avoid than where it is now.

Possible?
Thanks, Faster.

We do occasionally get over-riding turns.. From the spinnaker block on the toerail, the sheet goes through a fairlead aft then forward along the inside of the coaming to the turning block with the others (apologies - I should probably have rigged the spinnaker gear, but we don't use it much). The downhaul doesn't need to use the winch, so - yes, I think what you suggest is possible.

I'd need to put the winch somewhere it doesn't stop the crew leaning out (over the coaming):

1. How high should I (would I need to) mount the winch? I've seen other boats with it mounted above the coaming, but it seems to me that the higher you get the more difficult it is to mount it rigidly.

2. Where/how would I mount the turning blocks? ie. what is the correct angle for the winch?? - this would probably dictate the fore/aft position of the winch..

3. Where/how would I mount the cleats?

--Cameron

Last edited by Classic30; 10-15-2007 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 10-15-2007
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most winches need at least 5 degrees as far as I know, your winch manual should explicitly state it.

I would hate that traveler position too.

What have other Hartly 18 owners done?
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Old 10-15-2007
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most winches need at least 5 degrees as far as I know, your winch manual should explicitly state it.
The winch manual?? Hahahaha..ha.. oh!. Even if the PO was fortunate enough to actually have one once, I don't think I am ever likely to come across a manual for my Barlow 15's. Down here, that sort of rarity is only found in Museums of Ancient History.

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I would hate that traveler position too.

What have other Hartly 18 owners done?
The traveller has it's moments - but I was raised on boats with center-cockpit travellers, so I don't mind it too much. I find it's very handy having it right beside you for speedy adjustment when going to windward.

Other Hartley owners?? Some have their winches mounted right up on the coaming on all manner of ugly bracket and some (the cruising types) don't have sheet winches at all!

Hence my question to the "experts" (that's you guys!! )

--Cameron
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Old 10-15-2007
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Just had another thought.... how about mounting the winches on the cabintop near the companionway?

You might be able to leave your jib leads where they are - they will cross the seat area, but it will be the low side, and may not interfere with seating very often.

You may need some small pads under the winch to keep the sheet from carving a notch out of the aft edge of the cabin.

This gets the winches more inboard, and may even allow cross sheeting to keep the crew to weather...

With regard to plan A, you could have a SS bracket fabricated to hold the winch, and it could be fastened through the coaming and/or seat surface if it's strong enough. The cleat could be incorporated into the bracket somehow.

Tenuki is right, the minimum approach angle for a winch should be from 5 deg below the drum line, but excessive angle makes the lead awkward too.
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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Just had another thought.... how about mounting the winches on the cabintop near the companionway?
I've already got halyard winches (two more Barlow 15's) either side of the companionway for the jib (port side) and main (stbd side).

How would I set up somthing like that? Apologies for my ignorance, but I don't see how to get the sheets up there..

Thanks for your help!

--Cameron
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Old 10-15-2007
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re Barlow #15 manual....

That manual? hehe, check your PM... I happen to have 2 barlow #15s, nice little winches! Rebuilt them this spring, work like new now, not bad for 30 year old kit.

btw, arco-hutton can supply you with replacement parts for your barlow #15s including bearings. They even offered to sell me new arco winches with bases drilled to the old holes so I could drop in replace them. Ask for Bruno there, he's pretty helpful but a word of warning, call them on the telephone, email goes into a black hole.
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Last edited by tenuki; 10-15-2007 at 02:43 AM.
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Here's harken's diagram of the proper lead in angle, every diagram I've ever seen for winch mounting instructions is similar.



" Winches are further affected by how they are mounted on the boat. The most important factor is to ensure a proper line entry angle. Lines must lead up to a winch at about a 5-to-8-degree angle to prevent overrides of the sheet on the drum. If lead blocks are too high to allow this angle up to the drum, the winch must be raised slightly, or you will have serious problems preventing overrides.
"
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Last edited by tenuki; 10-15-2007 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 10-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenuki View Post
That manual? hehe, check your PM... I happen to have 2 barlow #15s, nice little winches! Rebuilt them this spring, work like new now, not bad for 30 year old kit.

btw, arco-hutton can supply you with replacement parts for your barlow #15s including bearings. They even offered to sell me new arco winches with bases drilled to the old holes so I could drop in replace them. Ask for Bruno there, he's pretty helpful but a word of warning, call them on the telephone, email goes into a black hole.
Tenuki, many thanks for the manuals and winch info - it never occured to me that someone may have had the forethought to scan them. It may seem strange, but the four Barlow 15's are one reason I bought the boat! You see my parents had Barlows on their boat when I was growing up - kind of sentimental, I know..

Thanks for the lead on parts. I shall give them a call..

--Cameron

Last edited by Classic30; 10-15-2007 at 03:57 AM.
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