Radar Use - The Sequel - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-20-2007
kiprichard's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
kiprichard is on a distinguished road
Radar Use - The Sequel

I recently asked two specific questions on this site regarding the use of marine radar. After some research involving various internet sites, the Canadian Coastguard (the U.S. wouldn't respond) and a lawyer I thought you may be interested in my findings. The lawyer does not specialize in Maritime law but did do some research and made some inquiries:
1) If your vessel is equiped with radar there is no legal requirement to have it operational unless visibility is restricted. The col. regs. state "Proper use of radar must be made if it is installed and operational". "Proper use" is accepted to mean; "A radar equiped vessel is expected to have the set in operation whenever manoevring in conditions of limited visibility".
2) You will not "paint" a larger, or different, target on the screen of a receiving radar by having your radar operational.There are some sets that have built in signal detectors (like a car radar detector) but the on screen signal will be no different. Outside of the military vessels so equiped are rare. The intent of their use is to alert the mariner to the presence of a nearby marine radar. And no, a car radar detector won't work. They are set to a different frequency. A radar antenna in your rigging will, however, act as a radar reflector and will increase your cross section to another vessel. This happens whether or not your radar is turned on.
I'm not presenting these findings as "law". Just what I came up with.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 10-20-2007
RickLaPaz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
RickLaPaz is on a distinguished road
I'll go out on a limb here and surmise that I missed Part One of this saga. Si como no?............

Rick
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 10-20-2007
camaraderie's Avatar
moderate?
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 15
camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough camaraderie is a jewel in the rough
Rick...here's the original thread:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showth...777#post203777
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 10-20-2007
RickLaPaz's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
RickLaPaz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Thank you, Sir. I've a feeling that I may need a lot of popcorn and Bohemias to get thru this one today..........
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 10-20-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 107 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
So if you had your radar on and were not looking at it, or never looked at it, would that be considered propoer use? Even if in broad daylight?

I would guess there is more than one definition of proper use, depending on who you are defending (smile).

I will not lie and say I always turn mine on. It is a power hog. But, in general I am thoughtful of some jerk in a motor boat (ie, Sea Ray), hitting me and sueing me as it being my fault for not avoiding a collision because I did not maintain a proper radar watch. Will he win??? Maybe, maybe just partial. It reminds me of that story with the guy and the tender tied up to the back of his boat. Do you know that story?

It goes something like: He was anchored and had his anchor light on and everything. He was following all the rules. His tender was tied to the back of his sailboat - just like mine always is. In the middle of the night a DRUNKEN (yes, drunk as I recall) motor boater struck his tender and subsequetly had an accident causing extensive damage.

Of course, it went to court for liability. It was found that the sailor was liable for the accident. Why? Because his tender did not have an anchor light on it.

Motor boaters have better lawyers than sailboaters, I have discovered. Keep that in mind when you hit the water. And remember, it is not who is right or wrong, it is who has the better lawyer.

I am sure many dissagree with me on this. I even dissagree with me on this. But I feel it is the truth in our society.

- CD
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 10-20-2007
Freesail99's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,507
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Freesail99 will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Yahoo to Freesail99
So would it be prudent to stick on of those stainless solar lites on your tender? I am suggesting solar cause it would turn on by it's self. Would that be enough ?
__________________
S/V Scheherazade
-----------------------
I had a dream, I was sailing, I was happy, I was even smiling. Then I looked down and saw that I was on a multi-hull and woke up suddenly in a cold sweat.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 10-20-2007
kiprichard's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 56
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
kiprichard is on a distinguished road
Radar Reflectors

During my research on radar use I came across information on radar reflectors you may find interesting. A lot of tests find the conventional reflectors most of us hang in our rigging to be next to useless . Some British magazines find a French reflector (tri-lens) to be the best you can get. It looks like 3 spheres merged together.
I attempted to submit a link to their site but apparently I'm not allowed to do that if there are less mthan 10 replies. I'll try again if interest builds.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 10-23-2007
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Freesail-

Yes, an all-around white light would be good for the tender...it doesn't have to have 2 NM visibility, since the tender is so small.

Kiprichard-

You need to have 10 posts of your own before you can post a link. It's an anti-spammer feature.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 10-23-2007
Boasun's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,064
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
Boasun will become famous soon enough Boasun will become famous soon enough
If you hit an anchored vessel you are 100% liable. And if you hit the tender that is tied off at the stern it is the same whether it is lit or not. Why would you be going that close to an anchored vessel in the first place? Pure foolishness and poor seamanship on your part. Radar or no radar.
If you have an operational radar, you are expected to be using it. But remember that the radar is only a tool to assist you in standing a proper watch. A Power hog would require maybe a small genset on board??
I use a radar at all times for various reasons, even in clear weather. One good reason is: If you are not use to looking at it, you won't know what you are seeing on the screen when you are in restricted visibility. That is a fact big time! There multiple other reasons also. And some are cover in Col Regs training (Rules of the Road). And the other you would find out about if and when you attend a radar school.

Last edited by Boasun; 10-23-2007 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Expand on the reasoning.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 10-23-2007
Cruisingdad's Avatar
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,904
Thanks: 3
Thanked 107 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough Cruisingdad is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
If you hit an anchored vessel you are 100% liable. And if you hit the tender that is tied off at the stern it is the same whether it is lit or not. Why would you be going that close to an anchored vessel in the first place? Pure foolishness and poor seamanship on your part. Radar or no radar.
If you have an operational radar, you are expected to be using it. But remember that the radar is only a tool to assist you in standing a proper watch. A Power hog would require maybe a small genset on board??
I use a radar at all times for various reasons, even in clear weather. One good reason is: If you are not use to looking at it, you won't know what you are seeing on the screen when you are in restricted visibility. That is a fact big time! There multiple other reasons also. And some are cover in Col Regs training (Rules of the Road). And the other you would find out about if and when you attend a radar school.

That is what I would have thought too. It was written up here and on a few other boards. However, the judge put the blame on the sailboat because he did not show proper lighting on the tender - an all white light.

I did not say I agreed with it. It is absurd. But that was the ruling - or at least as it was presented to us. The judge felt that if he had raised his tender out of the water, then he would not have been at fault.
__________________
Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Navigating with Radar Jim Sexton Seamanship Articles 0 03-29-2002 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Seamanship Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Cruising Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Her Sailnet Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:19 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.