Radar Use - The Sequel - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 Old 10-20-2007 Thread Starter
Member
 
kiprichard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 62
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
 
Radar Use - The Sequel

I recently asked two specific questions on this site regarding the use of marine radar. After some research involving various internet sites, the Canadian Coastguard (the U.S. wouldn't respond) and a lawyer I thought you may be interested in my findings. The lawyer does not specialize in Maritime law but did do some research and made some inquiries:
1) If your vessel is equiped with radar there is no legal requirement to have it operational unless visibility is restricted. The col. regs. state "Proper use of radar must be made if it is installed and operational". "Proper use" is accepted to mean; "A radar equiped vessel is expected to have the set in operation whenever manoevring in conditions of limited visibility".
2) You will not "paint" a larger, or different, target on the screen of a receiving radar by having your radar operational.There are some sets that have built in signal detectors (like a car radar detector) but the on screen signal will be no different. Outside of the military vessels so equiped are rare. The intent of their use is to alert the mariner to the presence of a nearby marine radar. And no, a car radar detector won't work. They are set to a different frequency. A radar antenna in your rigging will, however, act as a radar reflector and will increase your cross section to another vessel. This happens whether or not your radar is turned on.
I'm not presenting these findings as "law". Just what I came up with.
kiprichard is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 10-20-2007
Senior Member
 
RickLaPaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
I'll go out on a limb here and surmise that I missed Part One of this saga. Si como no?............

Rick
RickLaPaz is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 12 Old 10-20-2007
moderate?
 
camaraderie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,877
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 16
     
Rick...here's the original thread:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showth...777#post203777
camaraderie is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 12 Old 10-20-2007
Senior Member
 
RickLaPaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Thank you, Sir. I've a feeling that I may need a lot of popcorn and Bohemias to get thru this one today..........
RickLaPaz is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 12 Old 10-20-2007
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,917
Thanks: 3
Thanked 124 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
So if you had your radar on and were not looking at it, or never looked at it, would that be considered propoer use? Even if in broad daylight?

I would guess there is more than one definition of proper use, depending on who you are defending (smile).

I will not lie and say I always turn mine on. It is a power hog. But, in general I am thoughtful of some jerk in a motor boat (ie, Sea Ray), hitting me and sueing me as it being my fault for not avoiding a collision because I did not maintain a proper radar watch. Will he win??? Maybe, maybe just partial. It reminds me of that story with the guy and the tender tied up to the back of his boat. Do you know that story?

It goes something like: He was anchored and had his anchor light on and everything. He was following all the rules. His tender was tied to the back of his sailboat - just like mine always is. In the middle of the night a DRUNKEN (yes, drunk as I recall) motor boater struck his tender and subsequetly had an accident causing extensive damage.

Of course, it went to court for liability. It was found that the sailor was liable for the accident. Why? Because his tender did not have an anchor light on it.

Motor boaters have better lawyers than sailboaters, I have discovered. Keep that in mind when you hit the water. And remember, it is not who is right or wrong, it is who has the better lawyer.

I am sure many dissagree with me on this. I even dissagree with me on this. But I feel it is the truth in our society.

- CD

Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cruisingdad is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 12 Old 10-20-2007
Senior Member
 
Freesail99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,507
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Send a message via Yahoo to Freesail99
So would it be prudent to stick on of those stainless solar lites on your tender? I am suggesting solar cause it would turn on by it's self. Would that be enough ?

S/V Scheherazade
-----------------------
I had a dream, I was sailing, I was happy, I was even smiling. Then I looked down and saw that I was on a multi-hull and woke up suddenly in a cold sweat.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Freesail99 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 12 Old 10-20-2007 Thread Starter
Member
 
kiprichard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 62
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
 
Radar Reflectors

During my research on radar use I came across information on radar reflectors you may find interesting. A lot of tests find the conventional reflectors most of us hang in our rigging to be next to useless . Some British magazines find a French reflector (tri-lens) to be the best you can get. It looks like 3 spheres merged together.
I attempted to submit a link to their site but apparently I'm not allowed to do that if there are less mthan 10 replies. I'll try again if interest builds.
kiprichard is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 12 Old 10-23-2007
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 14
         
Freesail-

Yes, an all-around white light would be good for the tender...it doesn't have to have 2 NM visibility, since the tender is so small.

Kiprichard-

You need to have 10 posts of your own before you can post a link. It's an anti-spammer feature.

Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 12 Old 10-23-2007
Senior Member
 
Boasun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,070
Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
If you hit an anchored vessel you are 100% liable. And if you hit the tender that is tied off at the stern it is the same whether it is lit or not. Why would you be going that close to an anchored vessel in the first place? Pure foolishness and poor seamanship on your part. Radar or no radar.
If you have an operational radar, you are expected to be using it. But remember that the radar is only a tool to assist you in standing a proper watch. A Power hog would require maybe a small genset on board??
I use a radar at all times for various reasons, even in clear weather. One good reason is: If you are not use to looking at it, you won't know what you are seeing on the screen when you are in restricted visibility. That is a fact big time! There multiple other reasons also. And some are cover in Col Regs training (Rules of the Road). And the other you would find out about if and when you attend a radar school.

Last edited by Boasun; 10-23-2007 at 08:43 PM. Reason: Expand on the reasoning.
Boasun is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 12 Old 10-23-2007
Best Looking MALE Mod
 
Cruisingdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Washington State
Posts: 9,917
Thanks: 3
Thanked 124 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
If you hit an anchored vessel you are 100% liable. And if you hit the tender that is tied off at the stern it is the same whether it is lit or not. Why would you be going that close to an anchored vessel in the first place? Pure foolishness and poor seamanship on your part. Radar or no radar.
If you have an operational radar, you are expected to be using it. But remember that the radar is only a tool to assist you in standing a proper watch. A Power hog would require maybe a small genset on board??
I use a radar at all times for various reasons, even in clear weather. One good reason is: If you are not use to looking at it, you won't know what you are seeing on the screen when you are in restricted visibility. That is a fact big time! There multiple other reasons also. And some are cover in Col Regs training (Rules of the Road). And the other you would find out about if and when you attend a radar school.

That is what I would have thought too. It was written up here and on a few other boards. However, the judge put the blame on the sailboat because he did not show proper lighting on the tender - an all white light.

I did not say I agreed with it. It is absurd. But that was the ruling - or at least as it was presented to us. The judge felt that if he had raised his tender out of the water, then he would not have been at fault.

Sailnet Moderator



1987 Tayana Vancouver 42, Credendo Vides, (Mom and Pops boat, F/T Mobile Live Aboards in Puget Sound)

My Website:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow My Blog at:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Follow me on Facebook:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Cruisingdad is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Navigating with Radar Jim Sexton Seamanship Articles 0 03-29-2002 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Seamanship Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Cruising Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM
Radar Basics Jim Sexton Her Sailnet Articles 0 11-14-1999 07:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome