Poo isn't so bad, is it?

[HoffaLives]

So everybody has their bugaboos and I hear poo is a big one. That's okay. But I'll take my fears in a different direction. While poking about the web on this stuff and edumicating myself, I found out lots I didn't know about the state of toxic contamination in this area; it goes way beyond the seabed. There are several sites on the foreshore in both harbours that are toxic. Rock Bay - a few blocks up the street - is the most contaminated site in BC. An old coal gasification plant was there for almost 100 years.

Victoria is a tourist town and prides itself in it's beauty, and it does look beautiful, but there is an ugly truth here that people should probably know about.

[xort]

Hoffa
You were making some sense until you minimalized the 61 deaths from e-coli. Those deaths came pretty fast from the contamination. If you get toxic contamination (cancer), you might die 20, 30, 40 years later. Using your type of logic, I could minimalize those deaths down to miniscule proportions.
I'd be curious to know the size of the water body your are talking about, the volume of water flow from tides & rivers to flush that waterbody and the amount of poo that gets pumped by livaboards as well as the location of swimming beaches nearby. That could have a bearing on whether I would make the effort to pump out with these difficult conditions to meet.

[sailingdog]

One thing I'd point out about dioxins is that the higher level predators tend to concentrate the poisons quite well, since most everything they eat, eats dioxin laden prey further down the chain. That's one reason you're not supposed to eat too much of the large predatory fish, like Tuna, since they tend to concentrate toxins, like mercury in their case.

BTW, the Acushnet River, which is what my marina is on, as well as most of New Bedford harbor is an EPA Superfund site... one of the most contaminated in the country AFAIK. This is one major reason neither Fairhaven or New Bedford harbors have been dredged in many years... as doing so requires hazardous materials handling that vastly increases the costs. But all of Buzzards Bay is an NDZ... mainly because the way the currents flow, there isn't enough of a tidal exchange to clear out anything dumped in the waters there. It would tend to concentrate over time. That may also be the case with Victoria's harbor... I don't know.

[HoffaLives]

Originally Posted by xort

Hoffa
You were making some sense until you minimalized the 61 deaths from e-coli.

It's not about minimalizing anything; it's about getting riled about what is really important. More people get killed by lightning strikes. Every preventable death is a tragedy, altho I haven't read anything that indicated those deaths were caused by preventable fecal contamination, but I say focus first on the BIG problems before turning to the small.

I'm totally left scratching my head about this thread. People keep coming back to the poo, which hasn't killed anyone in this harbour, hasn't even be shown to be a health hazard because of the salt water, and meanwhile there are potentially thousands of people who's health could be impacted by the toxic waste here, waste that there is no doubt how dangerous it is.

[flyingwelshman]

Originally Posted by HoffaLives

It's not about minimalizing anything; it's about getting riled about what is really important. More people get killed by lightning strikes. Every preventable death is a tragedy, altho I haven't read anything that indicated those deaths were caused by preventable fecal contamination, but I say focus first on the BIG problems before turning to the small.

I'm totally left scratching my head about this thread. People keep coming back to the poo, which hasn't killed anyone in this harbour, hasn't even be shown to be a health hazard because of the salt water, and meanwhile there are potentially thousands of people who's health could be impacted by the toxic waste here, waste that there is no doubt how dangerous it is.

Once again: just to clarify - the comments concerning the danger of e-coli were directed at a post that suggested that e-coli was not a dangerous organism. It did not pertain to the issue of contaminated water (except inasmuch as pathogenic organisms (including e-coli 0157:h7) will be present where there is an increase of raw sewage.)

I would suspect that the majority of fatalities in the US are caused by food-borne e-coli (in ground meat etc.) rather than water-borne.

Regarding the effect of salt water on e-coli - Peter R. Smith, Evelyn Farrell, and Kieran Dunican of the Department of Microbiology, University College, Galway, Ireland have demonstrated that sea water does not adversly affect e-coli.

[Ishmael]

Fascinating thread. I'll jump in.

1. Sanitation laws are made to please the political constituants that pay the most taxes - read waterfront land owners - not livaboards. They don't make sense. It is illegal to urinate or deficate into any 'device' ( including a bucket) and dump it overboard. No matter that the city/factory down the street does - they pay more taxes, larger constituancy, etc. In order to appear to address the problem with little political blowback the 'boaters dumping' is targeted. However,because of the way the law is written, one could legally take a leak or dump directly overboard and be in complete compliance with marine sanatiation laws. Maybe indecent exposure problem but try to go in the dark, right. Weird? Always has been. Breath in, breath out, move on.

2. Why don't I dump overboard? Not the right thing to do. Hopefully I don't need to explain why.

Good luck.

[therapy23]

I have to jump in here too.

Hoffa, most cannot read or understand what you have tried to say a few times.

Someone said living in our own poo is common and is correct. It has always been so and is so today except that some seem to think that if it is removed a certain distance then everything is OK. I know a lot of poo is collected and treated so y'all can save the replies about that.

But in most of the world................

I was looking at cats to buy and charter and came upon this. I was shocked to find out the charter capital of the world does not pump out. Hmmm.......

http://sailingthecaribbean.com/Bareb...ads%201-04.htm

Sorry to hear your water is crappy.

Tampa Bay (near me) has supposedly been made cleaner over the years but you would not know it by trying to see the bottom.

Maybe it is the ever increasing number of manatees (how big is a manatee turd anyway?) and the fact that they are protected (cute) and are now decimating our sea grass beds too.

[therapy23]

Here is a quote from another forum.

Then you would be really shocked to find out what we still do with very bad chemicals.

If You ever get to the St Louis mo area. I will take you down to a spot were you will not only see 55 gallon drums barried in the river front. You will also see truck bring more in to barry and a full time dozer operator that keeps covering them over.

The funny thing. The site has been closed for years and is a supper fund clean up site.

I have hauled MILLIONS of pounds into this place and also been around at say 2 or 3 in the am when a tanker truck or 7 just got empty some how.

Its nasty what is done.

I am all for sending trash to space. Let it burn up on reentry. Just it costs way to much.

[sailingdog]

Hoffa-

Where do you get your information. Dioxins are mutagenic and damage DNA and RNA, but are not in any way or form DNA analogues. Last I checked, DNA was made up of amino acids—proteins, which contain Nitrogen, Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. Dioxin is a nasty chemical compound made up of Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. While they are highly carcinogenic, considered mutagenic and tetragenic, they are not a DNA analog.

Originally Posted by HoffaLives

I live on this water. I'm more afraid of gull **** laced with dioxins landing on me and my boat (dioxins are DNA analogues and very toxic at extremely low concentrations). than getting plague from the water. I did a cursory look online and it seem there is still some question as to whether human-transmitted pathogens can even survive salt water. Apparently the jury is still out.

[wind_magic]

Hoffa, it is all valid questions I think.

We are all animals too, and there is plenty of animal crap in the water. Frogs, eels, fish, dolphins, whales, sharks, you name it, they all take a crap right there in the water. And even the land animals do, you can't drink the water in most of the creeks because they run straight through fields full of cows that just do their business whenever they want to, where ever. So, no, in the big scheme of things I don't think your little contribution is going to hurt anything.

As for myself I will try to stick to the rules. Not because I necessarily think it's that big of a deal but just because I would rather play by the rules if everyone else is. I would not, however, think twice about dumping overboard if it were a mechanical emergency. I would never put oil overboard or anything like that, but if the head was having problems and I needed to work on it I would pump the tank into the water without losing a bit of sleep over it. That is what you call special circumstances.