looks ruff in the Gulf.... possible "coffee spill" - SailNet Community

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Old 01-04-2008
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looks ruff in the Gulf.... possible "coffee spill"

Wise call by Captain Heather, waiting for weather window.......................(see flica thread)

Joe Butcher along with his wife, Terry, and brother, Doug, were returning to El Lago on their 42-foot sailboat, Red Cloud, with a load of 10,000 pounds of coffee when they were met by angry seas and fierce winds.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5417936.html
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Old 01-04-2008
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With 10,000 pounds of coffee on board, I wonder how much freeboard they had.
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Old 01-04-2008
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That's a hell of a lot of extra weight on a 42 foot boat! Looks like the boat was an older ketch.

Lots of detail here: http://ambergriscaye.com/forum/ubbth...=27968&gonew=1
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Old 01-04-2008
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4.5 tons of coffee?

It's a pity they lost their ship like that.

The ship still looked fairly buoyant. It did not seem too low in the water.
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Old 01-04-2008
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sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice
Ideas, even really stupid ideas, have consequences.

In an attempt to lift 1/7th of what coffee could be carried in a standard forty foot container these misguided souls have not only lost their coffee and boat, but damaged the environment and greatly contributed to the useless expenditure of expensive fuel resources. Apparently unbeknownst to them, ships which carry literally thousands of containers-so they can operate most efficiently-have long since made small sailing vessels uneconomical. The reality is that, to lift an equivalent amount of coffee cargo on such small sailing vessels, and assuming they are under sail 95% of the time, they'll still use more fuel per pound of coffee.

And the USCG won't be burning up massive quantities of high priced, high grade kerosene to fly out and winch them out of the soup. What rate do you think oilrigs in the middle of the Gulf charge for helo refueling? I'm betting, by the time it's added up, this was at least a $25,000 rescue, probably more. I'm really glad I had the opportunity to fund it. Although, if I'd been presented with the alternative of funding a $400, 3 credit class in transportation economics, I might have chosen that first.

Let's guess a couple of other things, perhaps. What are the odds they were insured? Minimal I'd guess. Marine insurance is going to expect the vessel to meet ABS standards for carriage of cargo at sea. And the ship, had she possessed such loadlines was surely loaded past them. which would make the vessel unseaworthy, invalidating any insurance she did have, and leaving the owners as sole responsible party for any pollution, damage, etc... caused by her abandonment.

When Mobil Oil steams a tanker out of the Galveston Cut they've spent millions of dollars to ensure the vessel is safe and that the vessel is manned by licensed professional officers. And when they screw up, which isn't very often for the amount of cargo moved, they get hung out to dry for it and must pay to remediate any situations resulting from their negligence. Meanwhile these whole earth tree huggers expect to engage in the same operation and the sum totla of liabuility they're willing to assume is, "we had good intentions about saving the planet". These people sound like the maritime equivalent of, "my mom's a good cook, we should open a restaurant".
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Last edited by sailaway21; 01-04-2008 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 01-04-2008
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Not even documented Sway!

And here's another rescue taking place in the gulf...good thing Heather listened to me and stayed put! (g)
Coast Guard Towing Sailboat 130 Miles Offshore

January 3rd, 2008
MIAMI - The crew of the Coast Guard Cutter Farallon is towing the disabled 37-foot sailing vessel Hot Ticket Thursday evening and is expected to arrive in Key West, Fla., at noon Friday.
The Cutter Farallon arrived on scene at approximately 6 p.m. Thursday after battling 10 to 12-foot seas for more than 10 hours in response to a distress call from the Hot Ticket, which became disabled approximately 130 miles southwest of Fort Myers Beach, Fla., Wednesday afternoon.
The crew of the sailing vessel Hot Ticket activated their emergency position indicating radio beacon (EPIRB) Wednesday afternoon when they lost steering and the vessel began to take on water. The EPIRB signal was received by search and rescue coordinators at the Eighth Coast Guard District Command Center in New Orleans. Eighth District controllers then contacted the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration’s U.S. Mission Control Center in Suitland, Md., to obtain the Hot Ticket’s position from the agency’s Cospas-Sarsat program satellites. Controllers at the Seventh Coast Guard District were then notified of the case. The position of the Hot Ticket was also checked against information passed by the captain to a friend during a satellite phone call.
SAR coordinators at the Seventh Coast Guard District in Miami took control of the rescue, directing the launch of an HH-60 Jayhawk helicopter from Coast Guard Air Station Clearwater, Fla. Moments later, the Atlantic Area Command Center received an alert from the cruise ship Grandeur of the Seas that relayed a mayday call from the Hot Ticket. In the mayday call the crew stated they had lost a rudder, were slowly taking on water and their satellite phone was no longer working.
Two HC-130 Hercules aircraft from Air Station Clearwater and an HU-25 Falcon jet from Air Station Miami flew missions to remain with the Hot Ticket throughout Wednesday evening and until shortly before the Farallon rendezvoused with the Hot Ticket Thursday afternoon.

EDIT UPDATE: The boat is a Dickerson and hhas 4 Texans including the owner aboard.
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Old 01-05-2008
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sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice
Does anyone have even the slightest conception of what it costs to fuel and fly a Hercules? There's a reason these ain't real popular used airplanes at your local army/navy surplus auction. Not enough details on the Hot Ticket incident but I thought the CG was not towing anymore. (?)

Without making any more judgements than I already have; are these incidents increasing? It seems to me that we used to hear about the CG going out for fishermen mostly, fishermen who had to be out to make a living. Are these sailboats coming with an "OnStar" button or something?

If my suspicions are correct, this has the potential to restrict all of us. The CG cannot recover it's costs; we'll have to listen to endless stories of how people lost their house to pay for their rescue at sea. The costs will continue to rise with the number of incidents. Eventually some politician is going to get the idea that we should close the ports, like we sometimes do to airfields and airplanes, and prohibit small vessels from putting out to sea. Anotherwords, a bureaucratic nightmare run by a bunch of supercilious despots.

Wait until some enterprising fisherman grabs that load of coffee under salvage law. Tell me you won't hear screams from the boat's owner on how the CG should have done "something".

You're right, Cam. It's a good thing Heather listened to you. I try to always listen to you. I keep backing the truck up into the tree in my yard though when I'm navigating by GPS. You didn't mention that insurance companies don't cover "navigation errors". I called it a navigation error; my insurance agent kept talking about cashews, peanuts, and something else. I think we had a failure to communicate. I'm still listening but, I can't get my tailgate open.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Not even documented Sway!

And here's another rescue taking place in the gulf...good thing Heather listened to me and stayed put! (g)
Coast Guard Towing Sailboat 130 Miles Offshore

January 3rd, 2008
MIAMI - The crew of the Coast Guard Cutter Farallon is towing the disabled 37-foot sailing vessel Hot Ticket Thursday evening and is expected to arrive in Key West, Fla., at noon Friday.
The Cutter Farallon arrived on scene at approximately 6 p.m. Thursday after battling 10 to 12-foot seas for more than 10 hours in response to a distress call from the Hot Ticket, which became disabled approximately 130 miles southwest of Fort Myers Beach, Fla., Wednesday afternoon.
The crew of the sailing vessel Hot Ticket activated their emergency position indicating radio beacon (EPIRB) Wednesday afternoon when they lost steering and the vessel began to take on water. The EPIRB signal was received by search and rescue coordinators at the Eighth Coast Guard District Command Center in New Orleans. Eighth District controllers then contacted the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration’s U.S. Mission Control Center in Suitland, Md., to obtain the Hot Ticket’s position from the agency’s Cospas-Sarsat program satellites. Controllers at the Seventh Coast Guard District were then notified of the case. The position of the Hot Ticket was also checked against information passed by the captain to a friend during a satellite phone call.
SAR coordinators at the Seventh Coast Guard District in Miami took control of the rescue, directing the launch of an HH-60 Jayhawk helicopter from Coast Guard Air Station Clearwater, Fla. Moments later, the Atlantic Area Command Center received an alert from the cruise ship Grandeur of the Seas that relayed a mayday call from the Hot Ticket. In the mayday call the crew stated they had lost a rudder, were slowly taking on water and their satellite phone was no longer working.
Two HC-130 Hercules aircraft from Air Station Clearwater and an HU-25 Falcon jet from Air Station Miami flew missions to remain with the Hot Ticket throughout Wednesday evening and until shortly before the Farallon rendezvoused with the Hot Ticket Thursday afternoon.

EDIT UPDATE: The boat is a Dickerson and hhas 4 Texans including the owner aboard.
I know these guys, they were delivering the boat to key west for key west race week. Raced against Hot Ticket for 2 race weeks, beat me every race. That boat is a flat out racer, very lite, very tender and very well sailed. Really good guys from Houston Yacht Club, i am so glad they are OK....
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Old 01-05-2008
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SWAY....I'm still listening but, I can't get my tailgate open.
There are those who would say your tailgate has been open too much already! (g)
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Old 01-05-2008
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WTF. I can understand the initial rescue, but when did the Coast Guard turn into a salvage company?
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