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  #21  
Old 01-10-2008
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I like to give people the benefit of doubt. Just because you have a case of beer does not mean that you sail, drive or fly under the influence. I am sure that lots of sailors have beer/wine onboard so that they can enjoy a drink once they get to the destination.

With a fire onboard he should have called a Mayday if evacuating the boat for a dinghy. Maybe the fire was such that he could not get to the radio, and in a panic jumped in the dinghy. In this case I would probably have left the dinghy tied to the boat since it is easier for potential rescuers to find a boat vs. a dingy. If he boarded a dingy with Santa Ana winds the dinghy would probably have been blown to sea.

A novice sailor should not sail 60 nm along the coast. I am a novice sailor in the sense that I have not sailed much in the last 20 years, before that I sailed a fair bit, owned a small charter boat business, and would have no hesitation sailing a boat 60 miles today.

When are you not a novice sailor anymore?

I can think of a few novice sailors that have sailed around the world, Miles and Beryl Smeeton for one.

Don't always be so fast in passing judgment!
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2008
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Corona beer isn't exactly a rare or especially expensive item in San Diego. Having cases of it aboard a boat for a 60 nm sail, when you're on-board alone leads me to believe that it wasn't just cargo. You don't need cases of it to enjoy a drink once you get to a destination.
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Originally Posted by TThomsen View Post
I like to give people the benefit of doubt. Just because you have a case of beer does not mean that you sail, drive or fly under the influence. I am sure that lots of sailors have beer/wine onboard so that they can enjoy a drink once they get to the destination.
Even if he was able to deal with the fire, a PAN-PAN call should have been made at a minimum. It does look like he was able to deal with the fire, since the boat didn't burn to the waterline and sink. Most fires on boats do not self-extinguish... and if the fire was that large or involved, chances are very likely that we wouldn't have even heard of this boat.
Quote:
With a fire onboard he should have called a Mayday if evacuating the boat for a dinghy. Maybe the fire was such that he could not get to the radio, and in a panic jumped in the dinghy. In this case I would probably have left the dinghy tied to the boat since it is easier for potential rescuers to find a boat vs. a dingy. If he boarded a dingy with Santa Ana winds the dinghy would probably have been blown to sea.
The guy was a software engineer, and didn't own a charter boat business. And we're talking about setting off with the Santa Ana winds starting up. Have you ever experienced Santa Ana winds??? Yes, there have been many novice sailors that have taken off on longer voyages than even this. Tania Aebi comes to mind. She was lucky. She was having issues with her celestial navigation and was overdue into her first stop along the way IIRC.
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A novice sailor should not sail 60 nm along the coast. I am a novice sailor in the sense that I have not sailed much in the last 20 years, before that I sailed a fair bit, owned a small charter boat business, and would have no hesitation sailing a boat 60 miles today.

When are you not a novice sailor anymore?

I can think of a few novice sailors that have sailed around the world, Miles and Beryl Smeeton for one.

Don't always be so fast in passing judgment!
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  #23  
Old 01-10-2008
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Guys, guys, the beer was extra ballast.......
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  #24  
Old 01-10-2008
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easy trip

Dana Point to San Diego is a cakewalk. Even in Santa Anas.

It's long, but the seas are docile and the wind is great, even in winter (sans storms). Stay over in Oceanside and it's really just 2 easy daysails. San Diego harbor is a mamoth bay that you would have to actually steer away from to avoid.

However, I remember the Santa Anas really cooking around that time, even on the coast. They were the worst Santa Anas I have seen in 40 years. These winds could have been trouble.

The seas would have still been mild with Santa Anas, as they are on offshore wind. An experienced sailor could have weathered these winds with sail reduction and proper angle of attack, however this guy may not have been experienced.
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  #25  
Old 01-10-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Corona beer isn't exactly a rare or especially expensive item in San Diego. Having cases of it aboard a boat for a 60 nm sail, when you're on-board alone leads me to believe that it wasn't just cargo. You don't need cases of it to enjoy a drink once you get to a destination.
I still think that you are jumping to a conclusion.

You must bear over with me since english is not my first language but to quote the news article.

Quote:
Bunker's laptop, along with cases of Corona beer, sodas, canned food and cartons of Marlboro Red cigarettes were found -- but Bunker was missing.
It could be read as there were 1 case of beer, 1 case of soda and 1 case canned food. In this case I would write it as "cases of beer, soda and food". It does not say if the beer had been opened or not.

As for Santa Ana winds, no I have never been in them, but they are of the family of winds called katabatic wind, which is an outflow wind, normally funnelled by mountains. I have been in that type of wind.

Thomas
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  #26  
Old 01-10-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TThomsen View Post
I still think that you are jumping to a conclusion.

You must bear over with me since english is not my first language but to quote the news article.



It could be read as there were 1 case of beer, 1 case of soda and 1 case canned food. In this case I would write it as "cases of beer, soda and food". It does not say if the beer had been opened or not.

As for Santa Ana winds, no I have never been in them, but they are of the family of winds called katabatic wind, which is an outflow wind, normally funnelled by mountains. I have been in that type of wind.

Thomas
Good point - it can be read as multiple cases (boxes, crates), each containing some beer, some soda, and some food.

Is poor writing skewing our perspective? Who knows for sure?
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  #27  
Old 01-10-2008
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One of my hats at work is as Safety Manager where I have to be objectiv. When I first looked at this tread I was wondering what the weather was like at the time. It is not always easy to find historic weather but I just hound this:

Special Weather Statement
October 3, 2007 - 1amPDT (Wednesday)

INLAND EMPIRE...SAN BERNARDINO MOUNTAINS...SAN GABRIEL MOUNTAINS...SANTA CLARITA VALLEY....CAJON PASS....SAN DIEGO COUNTY MOUNTAINS...RIVERSIDE COUNTY MOUNTAINS...ORANGE COUNTY VALLEYS AND FOOTHILLS...SANTA ANA MOUNTAINS...


A MODERATE SANTA ANA WIND EVENT LOOKS POSSIBLE BY THE WEEKEND. TO BE COMPLETELY SURE WHAT WE ARE DEALING WITH MORE RESEARCH WILL BE NEEDED HOWEVER BY SATURDAY NIGHT A 1029MB HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL BE CENTERED OVER THE GREAT BASIN. THIS WILL ALLOW RAPID COOLING UNDER IT WITH TEMPERATURES DROPPING TO 20 DEGREES OR LOWER IN THE GREAT BASIN.

THE TEMPERATURE DIFFERENCE AND HIGH PRESSURE LOCATION IN RESPECT TO SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA WILL ALLOW WINDS TO COME OUT OF THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST THROUGH THE PASSES AND CANYONS INTO THE INLAND EMPIRE AREAS, AND THEN STREAM OUT OF THE SANTA ANA MOUNTAINS AS WELL AFFECTING THE ORANGE COUNTY AREA.

OWS FORMULA IS ESTIMATING THE WINDS TO BE 40 MPH WITH GUSTS TO 50 MPH LATE SATURDAY NIGHT AFTER 11PM, AND PEAKING SOMETIME SUNDAY MORNING AROUND 4AM - 6AM. THE WINDS SHOULD RAPIDLY DIE OFF THROUGHOUT THE AFTERNOON SUNDAY.

FIRE DANGERS WILL BE HIGH ACROSS THE FORECAST AREA, AND IT IS POSSIBLE WE WILL BE LOOKING AT A RED FLAG WARNING FROM THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SO EVERYONE NEEDS TO KEEP AN EYE ON THE UPDATES FOR FURTHER NEWS ON THAT. AS OF NOW OWS CANNOT CALL A FIRE EVENT UNTIL IT GETS CLOSER HOWEVER WITH THE SANTA ANA WINDS BLOWING, FIRE CONCERNS ARE ALWAYS GREAT. OWS WILL NOTIFY THE PROPER PEOPLE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS TO REMIND THEM OF THIS EVENT. ALL RESIDENTS IN THE FIRE KNOWN AREAS TAKE NOTE AND WATCH OUT FOR SUSPICIOUS CHARACTERS.

IF ANYTHING CHANGES OWS WILL LET YOU KNOW. THIS IS JUST A FRIENDLY WATCH OUT FOR YOU AHEAD OF TIME.



K. MARTIN
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  #28  
Old 01-10-2008
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Here is a novice question,,,,,I know how to radio in a mayday....but what is the proper way to announce a pan-pan or a securerite'? Would you say "Pan-pan, pan-pan, this is vessel abc we are taking on water but the pumps are keeping up." Then give your location and so-on? How would you phrase it over the radio.
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  #29  
Old 01-10-2008
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Sample message (format ok, contents rubbish) - you want to say to whom the message is addressed, where you are and where you are going, the nature of the urgency, any action you hope someone might take and/or action you have taken/will take and then sign off. All that without too much wasted airtime. It is difficult to do absolutely correctly when under stress.

"Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan, Pan-Pan. All Stations, All Stations, All Stations. 15m sailing vessel `Sobriety` location 23.8° South, 133.9° E bearing 090 at 5 knots. Have run out of alcohol, but DTs are no longer incapacitating captain. Heading erratically for nearest bar. Might need assistance if pink elephants appear. Standby on 16, `Sobriety` out."
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Last edited by Zanshin; 01-10-2008 at 03:27 PM. Reason: added details
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  #30  
Old 01-10-2008
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The protocol is such:

1. "PAN-PAN [1-2 second pause] PAN-PAN [1-2 second pause] PAN-PAN" {pronounced "pahn-pahn"}

2. "All Stations (or name of a particular vessel)"

3. "This is (your boat name) [1-2 second pause] (your boat name) [1-2 second pause](Your boat name)"

4. "We (nature of emergerncy)"

5. "WE REQUIRE (type of assistance required, or other useful info such as position, description of your vessel, and / or number people on board."

6. "This is (your boat name) Over"

It is important to note that not to go overboard with descriptions, and to make the call trying to be panicky - instead taking a deep breath and be calm and talk slowly and clearly. A summary of description as listed above instead of full blown details (ie the writing of a novel - give what is pertinent) - as you are trying to hail someone and state the emergency...


If you transmit a such and you no longer need assistance then:


1. "PAN-PAN , PAN-PAN " {pronounced "pahn-pahn"}

2. "HELLO ALL STATIONS, HELLO ALL STATIONS"

3. "This is (your boat name) "

4. "TIME IS (transmission by 24 hr clock)"

5. "CANCEL PAN-PAN"

6. "This is (your boat name) Over"
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Last edited by artbyjody; 01-10-2008 at 03:39 PM.
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