Maybe Steel rules... after all! - Page 7 - SailNet Community
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post #61 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

We had a nav safety flash go around the fleet not long after this happened....

What I can remember from it:

1. Gringo is aluminium.
2. The vessel that hit Gringo was an "in ballast condition" feeder container ship.
3. Three on board, two below and one on deck. The one on deck went over the side when Gringo was pushed aside and on to her beam ends, he was tethered and managed to get himself back on board when the vessel righted herself, the two down below had a few cuts and bruises.
4. The mast broke where it hit the bow, the masthead light and a few other bits and pieces where found on the fo'c's'l deck of the container ship.
5. Gringo was towed in, I think if I remember correctly the force of the impact broke an engine mount or two.....

The reason we got a safety flash was it was one of our vessels that got to Gringo first, she was following the container ship.....
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post #62 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

Thanks for the additional info DJ. Where did the collision happen exactly? And what were the conditions? Do you know? I'm curious about the speed of the ship in the Gringo case.

The feeder container ship makes much more sense in terms of the apparent damage to Gringo than the full-size 27,000 ton freighter like the one in the Sleavin's case (the Pan Grace). Definitely different animals.

(PS - Brent's going to be very dismayed that Gringo isn't steel. He'll have to come up with a new example to try to prove his point.)


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Last edited by smackdaddy; 10-09-2013 at 05:59 PM.
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post #63 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
I just like the fact that the triple-facepalm poster has a misspelling.

This is the crew of the Gringo, thinking about Smacks suggestion. to "Forget about metal and go plastic." and his giving of that advice to people taking their families to sea.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #64 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJR351 View Post
We had a nav safety flash go around the fleet not long after this happened....

What I can remember from it:

1. Gringo is aluminium.
2. The vessel that hit Gringo was an "in ballast condition" feeder container ship.
3. Three on board, two below and one on deck. The one on deck went over the side when Gringo was pushed aside and on to her beam ends, he was tethered and managed to get himself back on board when the vessel righted herself, the two down below had a few cuts and bruises.
4. The mast broke where it hit the bow, the masthead light and a few other bits and pieces where found on the fo'c's'l deck of the container ship.
5. Gringo was towed in, I think if I remember correctly the force of the impact broke an engine mount or two.....

The reason we got a safety flash was it was one of our vessels that got to Gringo first, she was following the container ship.....
Thanks for the info.
What was the tonnage of the container ship, and its speed?
Steel is even tougher than aluminium, with far more reliable welds, which are far less prone to cracking. The sister ship to Joshua, which was hit by a 35,000 ton freighter (Posted in a 1984 issue of Yachting magazine) had a similar dent, with no leaks. How would the plastic boat which Smack advocates, have fared in such a collision?

We are still waiting for the video of Smack, waist deep in water , punching a hole in a tin can with an aluminium baseball bat, to prove that a very blunt object can punch a hole in a light, buoyant, steel container

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"

Last edited by Brent Swain; 10-09-2013 at 06:28 PM.
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post #65 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

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"Could someone please move this photo to "the pros and cons of steel boats" thread?"

Brent Swain
Would you please tell me what this aluminum boat has to do with "the pros and cons of steel boats" ?
I don't get it.
The behavior of aluminium in an impact is very close to that of steel ,and far different from that of fibreglass in such an impact. The damage to a steel hull would have been pretty much the same, maybe slightly less. What would it have done to a fibreglass boat, such as Smack suggests, is better for cruising.

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post #66 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

In reading Smack's posts, one should bear in mind that he automatically attacks any, and every suggestion of anything positive about steel boats, without having any experience whatsoever in cruising in , maintaining long term , nor building or designing a steel boat.
In other words, on the subject of steel boats, he simply doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, and never will, meaning his posts are completely worthless.

Brent Swain, Boat designer, Builder, and author of "Origami Metal Boatbuilding"
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post #67 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

Wow- I have zero interest in this subject, started reading and got sucked all the way in! The back story is brilliant, especially the part that includes Mr. Perry. Brent, I don't know who you are or what you are selling, but for the love of all that is good, just.. stop. Stop before someone edits your dialog into that scene in Downfall.
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post #68 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

Boy, Brent is on an angry rant tonight.

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post #69 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

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Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
In reading Smack's posts, one should bear in mind that he automatically attacks any, and every suggestion of anything positive about steel boats, without having any experience whatsoever in cruising in , maintaining long term , nor building or designing a steel boat.
In other words, on the subject of steel boats, he simply doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground, and never will, meaning his posts are completely worthless.
I'm a bit confused by your claim that a frame-less steel boat is particularly strong. Having operated many steel vessels, both power and sail, I have personally scalloped (between frames) a few, in conditions which were admittedly difficult, but by no means extreme. I cannot even imagine how a frame-less steel boat would have withstood those conditions, without sustaining severe damage.
In a collision situation I do not see that a frame-less steel boat would be any different than crushing a tin can, unless constructed of obscenely heavy steel. Though as you claim, welds do increase the work in construction, proper welds are stronger than the steel itself and longitudinally welding several smaller plates (rather than a single plate) as Joshua was constructed or hard chine construction, should be a significantly stronger build. Whatever you choose to call your technique, "monocoque" means monohull in French, nothing more or less, and is certainly not a construction method, by the way.
I am in no way contradicting the statement that a steel boat could survive an impact situation better than a plastic one, but even implying that this situation is survivable in one of your boats is pushing things a bit. It is pure conjecture at this point and I would be inclined to think that it would be less survivable in an "Origamiboat" than a more traditionally built steel boat.

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post #70 of 86 Old 10-09-2013
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Re: Maybe Steel rules... after all!

Brent, a sample of one does not a proven point make.

I think you need to take a few of your boats and put them in front of freighters to prove your point.
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