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  #21  
Old 01-23-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T34C View Post
I give up, what did I miss?? What did chilli say?? AFOC's want to know!!

Since we are on the topic, is Mr Lucky by any chance also LuckyJim that brought up the issue with Tartan in the first place?
Thats what Chilli was proposing. He then went on with his customary (as customary as his 6 posts would allow) threat that luckyjim/mr lucky/etc etc had better stop posting negetive press about Novis or else he'd lose this and that; wife, family, dog, home, blah blah blah. "You better listen to your lawyers or else" brand of BS.
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  #22  
Old 01-23-2008
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I have moved posts discussing the Tartan Quality/Owner issue to the other Tartan thread here:
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/showth...ghlight=tartan
where uch issues may continue to be discussed.
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Comment here should be limited to issues surrounding the Novis sale.
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  #23  
Old 01-23-2008
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Exclamation Please Read Before Replying Further

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  #24  
Old 01-23-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T34C View Post
I give up, what did I miss?? What did chilli say?? AFOC's want to know!!

Since we are on the topic, is Mr Lucky by any chance also LuckyJim that brought up the issue with Tartan in the first place?
Not so fast, T34C. I don't know LuckyJim, but I am interested in C&C/Tartan products. I have been amazed how quickly Novis seemed to spend all of its goodwill on QA issues that sound terrible when they are published in the media. If there indeed were only two disguntled owners and I owned the company, I'd have traded them each straight up on a new boat, and reaped millions in goodwill and future sales by trumpeting the company's support of its products and owners.

Finally, as I mentioned in the original post, I spotted this news on the Cruising World web site, which I happen to visit on a regular basis along with various other sailing sites. Given the discussions of C&C/Tartan/Novis here, I thought the article would be of interest to my fellow sailors. Evidently, many of those replying agree. I acted in good faith, so no more "vast anti-Novis" conspiracy theories, ok chief?
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  #25  
Old 01-23-2008
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That would have been the smarter thing to do as a company, even though it would have required them to "eat" the cost of the two boats. Most likely, they could have repaired and refitted the boats and minimized their losses quite a bit. That said, they chose to do what is possibly the stupidest thing in the world instead... and have managed to blacken both the Tartan and C&C names fairly thoroughly in the process. Trust and reputation are two things that take a long time for any company to build, but can easily be lost in a moment's time. It takes even more time and effort to regain trust and re-build a damaged reputation.

The conditions of the sale of Novis Marine's assets, while understandable, are likely to leave a very bad taste in the mouth of the sailing public, if they decide to leave the current batch of owners, both with problematic boats or not, high and dry. Those boats were bought with an expectation of the company to stand behind them, and these aren't cheap boats...and IIRC they go for far more than boats in a similar size range from Beneteau, Catalina, Hunter, Jeanneau and several other manufacturers would have. One reason people would pay that kind of price premium is for the additional quality of the boat, and that seems to be lacking for at least some of the new owners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lucky View Post
I have been amazed how quickly Novis seemed to spend all of its goodwill on QA issues that sound terrible when they are published in the media. If there indeed were only two disguntled owners and I owned the company, I'd have traded them each straight up on a new boat, and reaped millions in goodwill and future sales by trumpeting the company's support of its products and owners.

Finally, as I mentioned in the original post, I spotted this news on the Cruising World web site, which I happen to visit on a regular basis along with various other sailing sites. Given the discussions of C&C/Tartan/Novis here, I thought the article would be of interest to my fellow sailors. Evidently, many of those replying agree. I acted in good faith, so no more "vast anti-Novis" conspiracy theories, ok chief?
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  #26  
Old 01-23-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lucky View Post
Not so fast, T34C. I don't know LuckyJim, but I am interested in C&C/Tartan products. I have been amazed how quickly Novis seemed to spend all of its goodwill on QA issues that sound terrible when they are published in the media. If there indeed were only two disguntled owners and I owned the company, I'd have traded them each straight up on a new boat, and reaped millions in goodwill and future sales by trumpeting the company's support of its products and owners.

Finally, as I mentioned in the original post, I spotted this news on the Cruising World web site, which I happen to visit on a regular basis along with various other sailing sites. Given the discussions of C&C/Tartan/Novis here, I thought the article would be of interest to my fellow sailors. Evidently, many of those replying agree. I acted in good faith, so no more "vast anti-Novis" conspiracy theories, ok chief?
Listen slick, can I call you that - good. First my name , neither real or screen, is chief. Second what the hell are you talking about "not so fast"? I did nothing fast, including jump to any conclusions like a lot of people have. I'm personally quite relieved about a couple thing. One is that you are not LuckyJim, just happen to choose a screen name and stance on Novis that is similar. (That combined with your lack of posts raised a few questions) Second I'm relieved that you're not running any company that I'm an investor in because from the sound of it, you'd be in business for about 30 seconds.

I've got no dog in this fight and I personally think the true fault could belong to either party, but none of us know all the facts. I have only tried to play the devils advocate and make sure the Chicken Little crowd didn't get too out of hand. So, Slick, why don't you come down from your soap box and try to stick to the facts before you get hauled into court with UnluckyJim.
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  #27  
Old 01-23-2008
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SD- It may be true that Tartan/Novis could have handled these cases better by eating the cost of repair/replacement of a couple boats. But, it seems as though a lot of people are quickly willing to condem the company and their products, despite decades of industry leading products and service. And condem them based on what, a couple of very loud voicetrous customers who report that they weren't handled as they thought was right. Despite all the customers with the same boats that think they are great and that they receiced fine service. Seems a little premature to me. I'm going to guess that most Tartan owners could care less about Novis sale. How many people stopped buying Chrysler products when they were bought by Mercedes???
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  #28  
Old 01-23-2008
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Chief, My Name's Not Slick

But I'll call you "T34C" and you can call me "Mr. Lucky", ok? We'll call a truce and leave it at that.

I have no fear of being hauled into court for any of the messages I've posted to this or any other site. They either state the facts reported by the media, or they represent my opinion. My lawyers have informed me I can't get in trouble doing that. They also told me I'd be looking at collecting a ton of damages and attorney's fees if I was sued on such thing grounds, particularly in front of a jury. Thus, I don't lose sleep at night.

As far as your assessment of my business sense, I don't believe you have any idea of my business experience, or how successful I might be. BTW, I note the prior poster seemed to agree with my straight trade angle, so I guess he has no business sense either. Since I don't know yours, however, I won't go out on a limb and question it; in honor of our truce, and since you don't know about mine, how about giving things a rest? Peace - Out!
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  #29  
Old 01-23-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_lucky View Post
But I'll call you "T34C" and you can call me "Mr. Lucky", ok? We'll call a truce and leave it at that.

I have no fear of being hauled into court for any of the messages I've posted to this or any other site. They either state the facts reported by the media, or they represent my opinion. My lawyers have informed me I can't get in trouble doing that. They also told me I'd be looking at collecting a ton of damages and attorney's fees if I was sued on such thing grounds, particularly in front of a jury. Thus, I don't lose sleep at night.

As far as your assessment of my business sense, I don't believe you have any idea of my business experience, or how successful I might be. BTW, I note the prior poster seemed to agree with my straight trade angle, so I guess he has no business sense either. Since I don't know yours, however, I won't go out on a limb and question it; in honor of our truce, and since you don't know about mine, how about giving things a rest? Peace - Out!
I'm good with that.

I just think there have been a lot of people jumping up and down and sounding the alarm when they don't / can't know the facts.

Ok, I do have to ask, why would you have reason to consult your attorney about this topic if you're not an interested party in any way?
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  #30  
Old 01-23-2008
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Does everyone that owns a Tartan have a lawyer or was one provided as part of standard equipment package
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