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Impressions at the Show

8K views 37 replies 19 participants last post by  poopdeckpappy 
#1 ·
I hate to say it guys, but after spending some time at the show last week, and spending quite a bit of time on board several boats, of the Big Three Production Boats, its my opinion that Hunter now has the best looking interiors and are the most comfortable down below.
I am just talking comfort below decks. I have no idea how they sail and still don't like some of the things above the shear, but down below, the Hunters are very comfortable. Opinions are like A#$'s everybody has one, and I am sure others will disagree, but hands down better than the new Beneteau Series and the Catalina's.

We spent very little time on the Jeannaeu's

Sailing characteristics are a different subject all together, I am just telling you what I saw at the boat show. I have no idea how they sail; I am just talking about comfort level.

After the so called Production Boats, despite the negative feedback they have been getting lately, my favorite boat was the Tartan 4300. It had a very comfortable interior and nice build quality. I did not like the placement of the Nav center as it was aft of the galley. I prefer to see the nav station more a part of the salon and not removed from it. Other than that, it was a beautiful boat with traditional lines with traditional ports and not that crappy looking curved coach roof.

The IP's I have always felt have a very comfortable interior. The bulkhead mounted table that opens up the main saloon nicely.

If I had money to burn I would go for the Valliant. Beautiful boat designed for a specific purpose. It was the first time I was aboard a true Blue Water boat and you can really tell the difference between Blue Water and Costal Cruiser. Even standing still on jack stands the boat screamed, "I am solid as a rock and I will take you anywhere you want to go."

Best looking 25 footer I saw was the Harbor 25 by Schock. Great looking little boat.

Didn't get to a lot of stuff, but I was able to find a nice Henry Loyd costal jacket and also picked up some of the Prism Polish.

You guys can all tell me I am full of crap if you want. These are just some of my impressions from a couple of days at the show. Best time I had was on Friday evening at 5:00, thats when all the a$%es came out.
 
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#2 ·
I have to agree that the Hunters have gotten much better, on the inside at least. The outside still bothers me. SA and I walked around and looked at the hulls. They just don't look like they were built to sail, something not right by the eye. No holds barred here, the Beneteaus looked horrible. They looked like the Hunters of the 90's. Low quality, sharp corners, one even had the microwave above the Nav station. Thats right, you sat at the Nav and faced the microwave. Catalina was the same as always. The 387 was the new addition and it was decent. Personally, I liked the Jeannaeu line better than all of those three. I liked all the blue water boats.

My show favorite, and I forgot to look at the J109, was the C&C 115. I though it was laid out extremely well below deck with plenty of room to cruise and still safe enough for rough seas. Above deck I was happy to see the traveler at the helm and the winches within reach. Just wish it had opening ports.

I also really liked the Cheasapeake Bay sailing dinghies. Sturdy, easy to build, aesthetically pleasing, light, and not too expensive.
 
#3 ·
Ok, as mentioned, opinions are like A@$%#$. I was aboard the same boats ,at the same show, and came away with a very different feel. It is no secret that I'm not a big Hunter fan, but I went looking and collecting literature for a buddy of mine. I found the Hunters to have the most cheaply built, and poorly designed interiors of any boat I have ever been on. I saw companionway ladders that had what looked to be partical board sides that will no doubt crumble as soon as they get wet. I had a repeated problem with hitting my head on doorways that were too short (I am 6' 0" tall), lots of little 4-5" step-up/down inside that made for tripping hazards, and kept banging my shins on things that we placed in ackward places.

If you want a big interior, that you have to crawl around inside of, and a big clunky exterior that looks like a Clorox bottle, buy a Hunter. I found the Catalina's to be very roomy (remember I currently sail a 40 yr. old design) and much better designed for actual use. I personally like the Bene's, but I don't have the experience with them that tjk- has.

The Micro/Nav station combo was pretty funny!
 
#4 ·
I couldn't agree with you more. The fit and finish on the new Hunter's are hands down better than the other production boats. As far as Valiants, love at first site. :D I will be going to the factory in the next month or so. Stay tune for a full report. What I don't get on almost all the new production boats is the no opening ports. They are just this huge solar house with all the lexan glass all around. I understand they want light in but in the hot the weather, give me a break! :(
 
#5 ·
After the so called Production Boats, despite the negative feedback they have been getting lately, my favorite boat was the Tartan 4300. It had a very comfortable interior and nice build quality. I did not like the placement of the Nav center as it was aft of the galley. I prefer to see the nav station more a part of the salon and not removed from it. Other than that, it was a beautiful boat with traditional lines with traditional ports and not that crappy looking curved coach roof.
There are two interior arrangements offered in the T4300. I prefer the alternate layout which offers three sleeping cabins and a forward facing nav station in the more traditional location (starboard side, near the base of the companionway ladder).

I also really liked the Cheasapeake Bay sailing dinghies. Sturdy, easy to build, aesthetically pleasing, light, and not too expensive.
Assuming you mean the Chesapeake Light Craft dinghies, they are neat, aren't they? We have the 11.5' sailing pram and it's a lot of fun, to build and sail!
 
#13 ·
Assuming you mean the Chesapeake Light Craft dinghies, they are neat, aren't they? We have the 11.5' sailing pram and it's a lot of fun, to build and sail!
JP yes, thanks for the clarification. Have you tried a small motor on it? I have a seven year old and I think he would love to help me build one.

Moonfish I think all of the boats there have their own specific uses and followings. On the whole, considering the years of production runs, they are all pretty equal to me. Any smart buyer will consider the individual boat and its intended use rather than the brand itself. (same thing you said basically) No brand wars here from me, just observations of the few boats I saw.:)
 
#6 ·
It is interesting to see the changes Catalina is making on their new models. Case in point - the new Catalina 375 pictures sent to me by a broker in FL indicate pretty clearly that C is following many of the ideas Hunter has been using for years - namely the type furler on their furling main, the deck plans and many of the interior features seem to mirror Hunter designs.
In terms of construction, having recently been to both plants recently, I can only say that Hunter seems to me to be clearly better built, stronger and with more attention to both strength and future maintenance but that is an opinion with which I'm sure others may disagree.
Making such statements typically starts a class war which is not my intent. Rather, only wanted to point out that it seems clear Catalina is changing their models to mirror Hunter's concepts which can't be as bad as some here might want to believe.
Paranthetically, I also had an opportunity to visit the Caliber factory as well as IP which are both quality boat companies and making any comparison to Catalina or Hunter seems misplaced as they are designed for very different purposes.
 
#7 ·
I am curious about the prices on 34 ft. coastal type sailboats. ( Not that I could ever buy one ) I bought an Irwin 34 to restore and I've got the blues about the cost. I'd really love to find out I've saved about $100,000. I have NO IDEA what a current production boat costs. I'll have about $18k in the Irwin when I'm done.
 
#9 ·
I like reading people's a*#s, er, I mean opinions... :D

Seriously, it is a continual source of amusement to me that one person can say "Friends don't let friends drive Ford", while the very next person will say "Chevy's suck!" It's as inane as taking the "tastes great" "less filling" argument seriously.

I spent a week once in a condo on the north side of Kaui (in Hawaii). It was beautiful, warm and sunny, lush, etc. The guy I worked for at the time told me I shouldn't go there "because it rains all the time on the north side". Yup, he spent a weekend there once (at a different time of year) where it rained both days. So, according to him, that meant it rained all the time there. Fortunately, I did my research and I that was just his a%$. Oops, did it again. I mean opinion...

If anyone bothers to read this, yes I do have a point - and it is about sailing. If you are in the market for a sailboat, and you have a budget, look at the boats in your budget with an open mind. Be deliberate and gather factual, substantive information that you can use to compare "apples to apples". If you go strictly by other's opinions, you'll never buy a boat, becuase you'll always find someone who thinks that particular boat "sucks"...
 
#10 ·
I didn't go on too many of the big boats (MO lakes aren't too friendly for large sailboats), so confined my attention to the small trailer-ables. Many nice options at that level, with much variety from the Laser to the Picnic-cat. Lots of great info at the classes, but now the Admiral is fixated on chartering in Croatia! The Chesapeake Light Craft booth with the kayak being built in front of your eyes was pretty cool, and we see one of their 12-15' models in our future so I can stop being a boatless member.
 
#11 ·
Moonfish - good point - We used a decision matrix when comparing / selecting our first boat. Helped us score the boats we looked at and kept us from getting confused as to which boat had what feature and how they really stacked up against each other.

V/R

Dave
 
#16 ·
Why in the world did Tartan put that M Mouse fold out transom platform on an otherwise gorgeous boat?
Having owned a boat with one of those mickey mouse transoms...and feeling the same as you when I bought it...it is a WONDERFUL platform for boarding dinghys, loading groceries, diving gear etc. ....a GREAT feature for a cruising boat is NOW my opinion.
 
#14 ·
At last years show in Philly, I took my girlfriend to see some boats. She had no idea, but she always made comments about boats based only on size. "Oh, that looks nice" pointing at a 30 something Hunter, just because it was bigger than my boat. I too wanted to look around on them to see how they had advanced. I had been on countless Hunters when I was buying, but I had only been on older ones and was curious about the new.

The new Hunters are way nicer than old Hunters, but they are still Hunters. They make fine bay boats, and thats great if thats what you want. The interior screamed cheap to me though. Flourecent lights everywhere casting that hospital feel, the wood looked like particle board, and those glass halfwalls over the sink...... not for me. My girlfriend learned that size doesn't equal quality that day, something I had apparently failed to show her otherwise:D :D

I don't know if they were in Chi, but I thought the Hake Seaward 26RK was a pretty damn neat boat for what it was. That would make a cool trailerable if you had that much to drop on a trailerable.

The one thing I noticed about all of the boats that I did not like was the door hardware. Every maker has moved to those push button, flush mount door latches, and every boat that I went on had at least one that was inopperable. You either couldn't get the thing to pop out, or it wouldn't push back in and stay there (pop right back out). I think Perko or ABI makes them, but I just don't like em.
 
#15 ·
I'm gonna have to agree with T34 with regard to the Catalina having the better built interior.

Which is the better overall boat...I'm not going anywhere near that argument.

We were shopping for a new boat last Spring and it was down to the Hunter 31 and the Catalina 309. In fact, I'd done the online virtual tour of the Hunter so many times over the winter that I was SURE that would be my choice. At that point I hadn't been on either boat.

'Saw the Hunter at the boat show and was let down by the interior. I'm a woodworker (by hobby) and cast a critical eye on joinery and materials. I saw all the sharp edges on the Hunter's interior, and a lot of veneers that may or may not have been real wood, and applied over what, I don't know. I couldn't tell if the fiddles were one piece or some kind of veneer on some kind of substrate.

We moved on and looked at the 309 at the dealer and chose it immediately. At first blush, the Catalina interior is less finished looking than the Hunter. Plain. BUT...in 12 years of use the Catalina's gonna look a LOT better than the Hunter. Those sharp Hunter corners and edges and veneers will get bumped and be nicked big-time. Fixable? The rounded, plainer edges on the Catalina will take impacts better (solid teak, too) and if the trim takes a good hit, it can be sanded out and easily refinished, as there is no stain in the wood to match (not as pretty as a rich stain, though). Re-apply a water based varnish and yer good to go.

Also, compare the doors on the two boats. Hunter is some kind of a veneer and mystery wood sandwich while the Catalina doors are solid teak, heavy panel doors. Totally refinishable and fixable. That's no accident...the decision must have been made on the doors to go solid, more expensive, and fixable, realizing that a lot of buyers are going to miss this advantage at the boat shows and yield to the glitzier Hunter. Yeah, we're talking production boat, not custom blue-water vessel, but it's easy to find whole pieces of teak throughout the Catalina interior. Lift up the lid on the 309 nav station and you'll see some really beefy looking solid teak, not ply.

The Hunter, IMHO exemplifies the adage: Beauty is only skin deep.

Shame on Catalina for not banging the drum a little more regarding the maintain-ability of their interiors. I recall a small reference to it somewhere in their literature, but easily missed. IMHO they've made some excellent choices for the boater who wants their pride and joy to shine down the road. Given the intense competition between the big three, and all the compromises that need to be made to keep prices reasonable, I think it was just plain gutsy of Catalina to go the simple and repairable route (but just a smidge dumb not to make sure that feature figures prominently in their sales campaign).
 
#17 ·
Moonfish- I guess that means you don't read any sailing magazines, since they are just filled with peoples opinions?????;)
Hell, Bob Perry makes a living giving his opinion on other peoples boats. (And his are still ugly.)
 
#19 ·
As the old saying goes, boat types are an opinion. Personally, I would not take what many of you call boats, ie Valients, Tayana's etc. They are good to excellent boats tho! I prefer the likes of the C&C's, Deilers, X-Yachts, or Jeanneaus non existant Sun Fast line. ie cruiser/racer to racer/cruiser style boats. The new jeanneaus are plain uuuuugly, those deck salons yucko! No matter the brand for that matter!

I did not go onto any of the Hunters at the recent Seattle show, nor did I go on any Catilina's. i did go on a jeanneau or two, C&C, Benateau 36.7, wife actually liked this one, surprisingly enough! Hanse was one of her favorites for the interior. Otherwise, the travelers on the cabin top, away from the helms person, what a joke!

Again, it all depends upon what you are looking for! My opinions are mine, yours are yours. In the end, whom cares. I still wish I could fine a 35'ish foot version of Giulietta! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH in my dreams! In the meant time, my 23 yr old jeanneau Arcadia, will have to do, steel keel and all! Along with a few other things folks do not seem to like, yet she is fast, nimble, traveler where it belongs, in the cockpit.........races well...........We did find a really nice 5 yr old used rig..............now to negotiate!

marty
 
#26 ·
I'll reiterate my comments to bestfriend. Upon viewing the Hunter's I found their hulls reminiscent of the dutch flute boat, which was fine if you lived in the 17th century and were engaged in the West Indies trade. I've always felt that a boat just has to look right. If it doesn't, even though you cannot put it into words, it probably isn't right. Form follows function. And since I cannot contemplate needing the function of a Hunter, I probably rejected the form out of hand. Topsides styling seems to take it's cues from Bayliner which seems to be emulating mid-sixties StarCraft cabin cruisers. The trim somehow reminded me of how they used to attach vinyl tops to cars. I couldn't help but think that I'd be little surprised to return next year and see the new styling cues including vestigial fins in a nod to the 1950's auto industry. I did not go on board for a view of the interior as I couldn't see owning something so off-putting from the outside. They'll sell a million of 'em, no doubt.

Like BF, I liked the C&S 38' but had a couple of quibbles. While the traveller is indeed right forward of the wheel, the wheel alone is rather more than enough to try to get around when moving from the helm forward. Add in the fact that you've now got to step over the traveller, each and every time, I could envision any number of inadvertent trips to the deck, especially in a seaway. While we're on the fat end, I'd add that the wheel was less than impressive in that it was seemingly coated with the remnants of an old hula-hoop. Looked cheap and felt cheap. The decent sized chain locker had zero provision for drainage of any sort. While it's hatch cover seemed robust enough and reasonably watertight I could easily see that the locker itself, some 2' deep and 18-24" square could easily become either perpetually half full of water or a regular chisel and shop-vac cleaning job. The rest of the deck layout was quite satisfactory. Below decks was admirably thought out with exceptional stowage options towards the lazarette. BF and I determined that he'd have no problems stowing his surf board easily in the port quarter of it. The only quibble to make about the interior was that there was no provision for dividing a sink that would take about 3 gallons of water to reach a 1" covering of it's bottom. The only really serious problem with this boat was the inability of getting BF off of her and on to some of her more modest sisters for at least a look see. In fact, I have no evidence to contradict the fact that BF may be posting from within her confines even now, while she's on a trailer to Miami!

Memory fails me on which boat BF and I were on that had the spinnaker lines led so nicely out of the gunwales to the cockpit. That is, until you went below and discovered that, should a line come adrift, you apparently had to disassemble a good portion of the boat's interior to re-reeve it!

The Chessy Lights were just that-light! Very impressive and I too can see one in my future. Assembly looked all that BoatWorks (RIP) promised in their review.

I've long admired the looks of the Alerion Express and the 28' at the show did nothing to dull the impression. The self-tending jib's boom though is much more impressive in person than photographed. I do not say impressive in a positive way. This is not a foredeck that you're going to find friendly to be upon in anything but the most predictable conditions. In serious conditions, that boom is fully capable of hurting someone. It is much more substantial and takes up much more space than you'd gather from the photos. Hey, every goddess has to have a mole someplace.

Sailing magazine was offering absolutely great deals on subscription renewals, sufficient to offset the entire price of admission to the show!

Gerhauer's booth was nothing fancy but loaded with gear, not just display pieces, and T34C picked up some very impressive snatch blocks that he let me touch, once.

To my dismay the folks at Poli-glow were offering absolutely no discounts on their fine product, even though I absolutely stole 7 minutes out of BF's life giving him the sales pitch for them. Another 30 seconds and I'd have either had a new job or BF would have taken the Poli-Prep scrub brush to my binnacle.

If the very gracious Laser salesman is reading this, you'll by now be sorry that you elected to be skiing while your Giant's were a thumpin' the Pats. Enjoyed our conversation and, if you get the urge to go to Lambeau Field some day, PM me here.
 
#27 ·
Technology is amazing, isn't it? With my new iphone I can travel across the country in the hull of yacht, picking up wireless signals and cell networks to bring you the latest from the mind of a rambling idiot. As Sway noted, the port compartment will handle my surfboard, but on this trip I have opted to stock it with Cheetos and stolen Poli-Glo.
 
#28 ·
Sway forgot to mention one very important piece of evidence. He happened upon a keel of great significance. It seems that Giu was not the first to put the design of his keel into use. Here is a picture of Sway next to his discovery.



And upon further investigation, here is a photo of the original designer.:D

 
#31 ·
I thought the theme of the thread was impressions of the show, not impressions of the impressions. (g)

OK, here's mine. bestfriend, your mother dresses you ugly. (that ought to end the discussion of all matters sailing and allow Mr. Perry to get some sleep!) (g)
 
#34 ·
BTW- I really have nothing against Mr. Perry (either one) or his designs. I was just pointing out that opinions are not insignificant things. We generally come to a concensus for a reason even though that concensus is made-up of individual opionions.
 
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