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Lighting while sailing at night.

18K views 52 replies 24 participants last post by  WanderingStar 
#1 ·
I had an interesting experience while racing recently that posed an interesting question.

I was sailing (on a port tack) towards the turning mark of a long distance course in the dark. We were lit like a sailboat should be, running lights and sternlight as well as a masthead red over green sailing light. Closing us on a steady bearing (risk of collision) was a vessel showing sidelights and a white light higher than the side lights. My watch Captain judged that this was a vessel under power and that we (under sail) would have the right of way. When it was apparent that the other vessel wasn't going to give way we crash tacked and got out of its way. As it went by, we saw a sailing vessel (on a starboard tack) with its anchor light on. When I later asked the skipper (he was in the same race) what he was doing, he said that they often sailed with the anchor light on so they could see the masthead wind indicator to ensure they were trimmed right. He claimed he had the right of way (starboard tack vice port tack) He never considered that it would confuse other vessels because his anchor light was on. It was a close call.

Thoughts?

How do you folks see wind direction and set trim at night?

Gaz
 
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#2 ·
He was wrong.

My tricolor provides the same convenient illumination of the masthead fly while remaining legal, although there is some risk inshore that people won't look high enough to see the tricolor.

Tell him to get a wind instrument (or another if he already has one) and mount it where the trimmers can see it. That said, I'm not sure what good that will do. We get more value from someone on the windward rail (or cabintop in light air) playing a flashlight over the telltales.
 
#3 ·
Boaters in our area constantly do this and it drives me crazy.
They will sail with thier steamming light on or with the anchor light on or with both on. They think that it makes them more visable (Or so that they can see thier masthead) but all it realy does is add to the confusion. We don't race, but the results are the same.
 
#4 ·
I was under sail after dark last summer, proper lights on (no steaming light on) and was hailed by a booze cruise boat who was barreling down on me admonishing me for not showing proper lights. Not by VHF, but on his hailer. :(

I presume for the benefit of his drunken party goers on board.

Mike
 
#5 ·
How do you folks see wind direction and set trim at night?
My masthead tri-color lights up the windex quite well.

There are special windex lights that I think are designed to cast their light up at the windex instead of out around the boat like an anchor light. They are probably also not as bright as an anchor light either. I've never seen one in action, so I can't say how confusing it might be. In any case, the windex should have reflective tape on the bottom of the fly and markers so you can see them more easily from below.

I've read a lot of discussion about glow-in-the-dark tell-tales on the jib, or tell-tales made out of fluorescent material illuminated by a blacklight set in the foredeck, or fiber-optic tell-tales, but have never actually seen anything like this in person. We just shine a flashlight on the sails when we need to check their trim.
 
#6 ·
He's an idiot. By sailing with the anchor light lit, he's effectively saying that he is under power and given up his rights as a sailboat. A sailboat, under 12 meters IIRC can use an all-around white light in addition to a bicolor to indicate that it is under power, rather than using a bicolor, stern and steaming light.

If you have proper wind instruments aboard, you shouldn't need to light up the windex, since the wind instrument display head, at deck level, usually in the cockpit will give you the same information. If he's too cheap to invest in one...he's gonna get hit one of these days.
 
#7 ·
The little Windex lights work great. You can buy the Windex brand name which mounts with your Windex.
The only disadvantage is the extra pair of wires to run up the mast. They just light up the Windex and are not very noticible otherwise.

Running with your steaming or anchor light on is of course wrong and if I had someone in our race fleet who did it I was politely mention it once then protest if he/she continued.

I should add that occasionaly I have seen the steaming light put on to help wort out a problem on the fore deck but the helnsman should be aware that night vision will be affected and they have no rights.

Gary
 
#8 ·
I'd think you should have protested to the race committee - and had him thrown out as a unsafe participant.
Not everyone can afford or wants a Tridata ST60+ or equivent with repeaters in the cockpit, that doesn't give them permission to conflict with the law, and be unsafe.

OTOH - a flashlight shined at him before it became a crash tack would have shown he was a sailboat - you too have a responsibility to be safe. Assuming the other boat sees you, knows the rules and will obey them has probably dented more sailboats than anything else on the water.
 
#9 ·
I had an interesting experience while racing recently that posed an interesting question.

snip
Thoughts?

How do you folks see wind direction and set trim at night?

Gaz
That skipper was a dangerous fool. Davis makes a low wattage Windex light that is beneath and slightly forward of the Windex shiny red tabs. You glue (if it isn't on already) a piece of white or yellow reflective tape on the bottom of "the arrow" and this small light, invisible from the front and inconspicuous from the side, lights up the whole device clearly.

Anchor lights are for anchoring. The only other use (and it's illegal, but tolerated) would be as a strobe to indicate position during a Mayday. Few people have this, however, which is good, because it would likely get used to indicate "the party boat".
 
#10 ·
Shining a flashlight on another boat in the dark is not on. That would completely blind the guy that is about to run into you. Not a great move. Perhaps shining a flashlight on your own sails is more appropriate.

Does it matter whether the white light at the top of the mast is a dim windex light or an anchor light? If it is at all visible from another boat it would confuse things wouldn't it? When scanning with binoculars those "low wattage" lights might not seem so low. I suggest that if there are any other boats in the vicinity then using any light at all to illuminate your windex is wrong.
 
#11 ·
Does it matter whether the white light at the top of the mast is a dim windex light or an anchor light? If it is at all visible from another boat it would confuse things wouldn't it? When scanning with binoculars those "low wattage" lights might not seem so low.
Except that lights might be shielded in such a way that they are NOT visiable from another boat. (I don't know, just saying it should be possible to design a windex light in such a way).

I suggest that if there are any other boats in the vicinity then using any light at all to illuminate your windex is wrong.
Except for the masthead tri-color if you are sailing, and that is the only navigation light you are showing.
 
#12 ·
I think that any light you are going to be able to see from 50 feet straight down is going to be visible from elsewhere.
 
#14 ·
You don't have to see the light from the cockpit, you only need to see the windex. The windex light points straight UP at the windex, so that the light reflects off of the windex. The underside of the windex is tagged with reflective materials, so the light doesn't have to be very bright. Like I said, I believe it should be possible to design a windex light that illuminates the windex without being visible from off the boat.
 
#13 ·
You could paint the forward 180 degrees of the windex light and it would be fine...for seeing the windex. You could have it on a switch and douse it when approaching another boat.

You have to understand it's like a 2 watt light. The trilight or the running lights on the hull would be far brighter than this, and as it is commonly *behind* the trilight, and *below* its housing, you would only see it from the stern, meaning you'd see a very dim yellowy light, with a freaking bright white stern sector of a trilight above it.

I've used these. They are dimmer than penlights used in cockpits. If a binnacle light at the helm doesn't cause a collision, neither will this.
 
#15 ·
Plumper-

If the light fixture is properly designed, with the light pointed up, it will not really be visible from any boat, unless your boat is knocked down. The way a Windex light works, it shines the light on the Windex arrow and the guides, so that you can see how it is oriented. It doesn't require any light be cast in a downward direction at all.

Valiente-

Anchor lights can be used as a combination steaming and stern light on boats less than 12 meters that are under power.
 
#16 ·
BTW, generally, shining a light at another boat is a bad idea at night. If you blind their helmsman, it can take up to an hour for them to recover any signifcant night vision. Shining it on your sails is a much better idea.

The only possible exception to this is the bridge of a large ship...where you'll likely not blind them, but will bring your boat to their attention. The bridge on most large ships is far enough away that your light won't blind them, at least at any position where you'll be able to shine it at the bridge.
 
#43 ·
Shining lights in the pilothouses of other vessels

BTW, generally, shining a light at another boat is a bad idea at night. If you blind their helmsman, it can take up to an hour for them to recover any signifcant night vision. Shining it on your sails is a much better idea.

The only possible exception to this is the bridge of a large ship...where you'll likely not blind them, but will bring your boat to their attention. The bridge on most large ships is far enough away that your light won't blind them, at least at any position where you'll be able to shine it at the bridge.
I mentioned this issue in another thread ont he matter of navigation lights recently but I'll do so again as it's important. Dog, you and BillyRuffin are very much wrong on the matter. First off it is illegal by US code. Second off, you will blind the bridge watch on the other vessel. BillyRuffin's references to automobiles is misplaced. You do not develop night vision behind the wheel of a car to the extent that you do on a ship's bridge.

The various ship's pilots associations tkae this matter very seriously and do all in their power to identify boats using this practise and report them to the USCG. Given that the piliot's are essentially in contact with every commercial vessel underway within the area, there's a good chance you'll be identified and reported. I watched a Moran tug follow a boat for some miles in pusuit of just such information so as to make a report for the "embarassment" of another ship.

If you feel that illuminating your sail is not getting the attention of the ship and you're that close that you're considering lighting up his pilothouse, you'd be better served by shining your light across his bow and moving it from a horizontal position to a vertical position, stopping at the vertical to illuminate your mainsail.

In 99% of the cases where I've encountered this situation it has been due to inattentive watchkeeping on the sailboat's part. They've gotten themselves into a situation they should never have been in because they were not keeping a proper lookout or incorrectly assumed that a sailboat has the right of way under all circumstances. You're drawing, at most, ten feet of water. Stay out of the shipping channel; it's highly unlikely a ship is going to run you down after chasing you into skinny water. It's every ship's master and operator's responsibility to be aware of his surroundings at all times. If you are, you are far less likely to get into these situations in the first place.
 
#17 ·
As a person with many hours watchkeeping on large ships (thousands) I think shining the light on your sails is better. Not because the light will blind the BWK but because the sails will glow and the light is just a pinpoint.
 
#18 · (Edited)
I use a flashlight when I want to see the windex. Easy, cheap and there when you need it.

As for ruining the night vision of crew on a boat that's about to run you down....I wouldn't worry about it. Quickly sweep the light across their bridge -- the "flash" won't effect night vision that much, but it may get their attention, which is what you're trying to do in the first place. A strong light on the sails should be the first thing -- followed by the more agressive tactic above.
 
#19 ·
I will admit to using the anchor light to check the windex at night. :eek: But, I only flip it on for about 5 seconds, then turn it off. After reading this, I'll just use a flashlight...

As for illuminating your own boat to warn another boat of your presence and/or heading at night, I have hit the spreader lights for a few seconds to light up the sails (way more effective than a single flashlight). Again, just for a few seconds, and then they are turned off. Of course, it really helps if you have spreader lights and they work. Mine don't at the moment, so that flashlight in the cockpit is going to get a lot more work... ;)
 
#20 ·
Billyruffin,
"the "flash" won't effect night vision that much"

Wrong answer - it will effect night vision. Does the flash of a camera effect vision?

Do it and you'll be liable if the blind helmsman runs you or anyone else down.

Redlight your sails if you want to get attention. Night blinding a helmsman might get you more attention than you want.
 
#21 ·
I've got two problems I think I can solve with one light, but is it legal? When putting together my boat, I installed this light on the masthead http://www.boatersworld.com/product/197260193.htm?bct=t13098025%3Bcielectrical-boat%3Bcilighting%3Bcinavigation-lights

It is a two bulb fixture and I currently have it wired as an anchor light with both bulbs coming on at the same time. The problem is that I can't see my windex at night and my stern light attracts hoards of insects, plus it does impair my night vision a bit. If I wire it so that just the rear facing portion comes on when sailing and kill the stern light, am I still legal? How much risk do you think I'll have with no deck level stern light?
 
#22 ·
I use the windex when cruising as a short cut. When racing with a crew, who cares? If you are beating you know how far you can bring the jib in - bring it all the way in and sail the telltales. At night, that means someone on the rail uses a flashlight so the helm can see the telltales.

If you are reaching, the helm sets the course and someone on the rail lights up the telltales so the trimmers can see (or calls guidance back to the trimmers).

The windex is a big picture tool, not a tactical trimming tool. You don't need it lit up all the time.
 
#23 ·
ChucklesR wrote:
Billyruffin,
"the "flash" won't effect night vision that much"

Wrong answer - it will effect night vision. Does the flash of a camera effect vision?

Do it and you'll be liable if the blind helmsman runs you or anyone else down.

Redlight your sails if you want to get attention. Night blinding a helmsman might get you more attention than you want.
---------------

With all do respect to the Rules (see Rule 36) and to fellow sailors here at SailNet, there seem to be several guys posting here that seem more concerned about the night vision of the SoB who's about to run you down than they are about being hit.

"Does a camera flash effect vision?" We're not talking about taking their picture. We're trying to get their attention..... 'cuz they're going to hit us!

Have you ever been driving at night and all of a sudden another motorist, or a police officer, standing in the highway ahead of you, "flashes" (in a sweeping motion) a light in your direction. Does it blind you? No, but it sure does let you know there's something ahead in the road that you probably don't want to hit. That's what I'm talking about when I recommended a "quick sweep" of a light.

If I'm close enough to "blind" a guy with my 6V flash light, I've already dropped the light into the cockpit and and am cranking hard on the wheel.:eek:
 
#24 ·
You probably should be cranking on the wheel long before this (right after you sound five short blasts and flash your light five times).
 
#25 ·
Billyruffn - you make an excellent point! I always get annoyed when a pedestrian walks in front of a moving car when the motorist doesn't see them, almost gets run over and then yells "I have the right of way!"

I always told my kids, "You may have the right of way, but if you're dead it really won't matter. Never argue with a ton of metal, you'll lose..."

In our case, never argue with 20 tons of Bayliner bearing down on you...
 
#27 ·
Your lights were incorrect also

If I recall correctly, rules of the road specifically prohibits using running lights and tricolor mast head lights at the same time. I read through the first page of responses and was surprised that no one had pointed this out.
Ardie in Virginia
 
#28 ·
We normally sail with an LED tricolor (to save A-Hrs). On a 3400 nm passage to the Marquesas we saw only one freighter, first by her lights then on radar. Hailing them on VHF, they couldn't see our 44' fiberglass boat (with a good radar reflector) at 2-3 nm until we briefly turned on our strobe . A Windex illuminator might cause confusion in close quarters, but we worry a log more about being seen at all -- we always assume we are invisible.
 
#29 ·
The purpose of a boat showing lights while under way at night is to identify to other boats the type of boat, its' form of propulsion, and course it is following. By showing a different set of lights the sailor trying to light his windex is in violation of various rules of the road and would be found liable in any collision. He surely should have been disqualified from the race, the same as if he had been using a sail that was not allowed by the rules. I have used the small windex light at the masthead for illuminating the windex for many years and it is very effective and virtually invisible to other boats.
 
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