Anchoring, chain diameter is a big difference?

[tsenator]

On my old boat (27 foot Watkins about 9000 lbs) I used to get away with 5 to 1 often. I had a CQR knockoff (25lbs) with only 12 feet of chain (I know I know....not enough)......But it worked pretty well for me, I never dragged (well at least, not substantially.....Knock on wood!). I too put a "sentinal" on (20lb or so)& I have also often set out about 3 to 1 (15 feet high tide and 45-50 feet out). But as you say, that is also with relatively benign conditions or just an afternoon lunch hook. But the "sentinal" REALLY changes the equations when it comes to scope. They really do help and make a huge difference.

I have been out in some really nasty stuff where my little anchor set up did awesome and everyone around me was having major difficulties. If any one was in NY Harbor on the eve of July 3rd, 2000 (for the july 4th Op Sail America) They would have been witness to some major "draggings" (I have video tape of some of it). Obviuosly there were tons of boats and a powerful and fast moving front came through with high winds (40-50 knots?....didn''t have an ananometer on that boat). Well all sorts of boats were dragging. There were 2 trawlers to the east of me (we were just north of the Statue of Liberty between that and Ellis Island) and those 2 trawlers had all chain and substantial bruce anchors. I looked like they had a lot of scope out but still they started dragging (One guy was visiting another boat and had to get in his inflatable and "run his boat down" and jump on , just like a guy in a rodeo). ....It was so bad there were even 2 motorboats that couldn''t break off their raft in time and they "drag plowed" their boats into the bridge going to Ellis Island.....did some major damage from what I heard

I probably only had 4 to 1 and was concerned so I went to the bow of the boat to let out some more rode , I wasn''t thinking and the just the rode get away from me.....WHAT A MISTAKE !!...(live and learn). It took all I had to grab that rode spinning out of that hawspipe (I didn;t have a windlass) It was almost impossible but I was able to do it (after major rope burns to my hands)the rode was so taught it was like a steel cable. The sentinal was out of the water and was doing nothing ! So at that time I probably had out about 90 feet in 12 feet of water was (little more than 7 to 1 with relatively no chain) and let me tell you my "knockoff" CQR held like a champ !.....Maybe I was lucky and hooked something (Jimmy Hoffa?) But I have had pretty good experiences with that set up around here.

And not only that the setup I had (5 or 6 to 1 with the sentinal) did a great just setting and resetting. The second night there (and I have anchored in NY harbor a few times) we were north of Ellis Island and the currents can run 5-6 knots and of course they change every 6 1/2 hours. Well with my set up I have it did just fine with the major 180 tide changes that occured.

Now on my new boat (36 foot, approx 16,000 lbs) I decided to try the SPADE anchor (45lb). I have heard SO many good things about it. The jury is still out for me as I haven''t had any nasty times at anchor with the new anchor yet. But lots of cruisers are starting to really "talk up" this anchor. Even in Nigel Calder''s book on crusing he mentions it and says he''s going to purchase one soon and see .

Read more about it if you''d like here. http://www.spade-anchor.com/US/default_US.html

One bad thing is its not relatively cheap. But its gotta be cheaper that getting your boat hauled or fixed if it drags anchor and hits something.

(ps I have also seen too many times when a danforth was hard to set....especially the smaller/lighter ones........I want my anchor to go STRAIGHT to the bottom.

But really it all comes down to how well something works for you. Just because something might be unorthodox doesn''t matter. Just staying put does, if you find yourself having "anchoring moments". Then something has to change in what you are doing/using.

[windship]

Fellow sailors,
I sorry I sound like a broken record with this Bruce thing but I''ve just had to many non-events with it in very nasty weather and circumstances.
My best friend and I were on the way to the ramp for fall haul-out on his Sabre thirty-eight. The wind was blowing a sustained thirty Kts.(we had a ananometer)the depth was thirty-nine feet, mud, twenty feet of three eighths chain and five eighths three strand nylon with a thirty-three Lb. Bruce. He was having tranny problems and it deceided to quit now!
We dropped the hook quickly... very quickly because we were going through a mooring field.We let the anchor hit the bottom and let out another twenty or thirty feet of rode.We did this stearn-to-wind (we had no engine)and the rode got caught in the prop. That Bruce held in those conditions with an eighteen thousand Lb. boat for an hour until a diver arived.
The diver tied up to our boat with his twenty foot walk-around, dove to unfoul the prop.The two boats swung around head-to-wind.The Bruce STILL HELD! We hauled the Bruce with no problem and the Boat US diver/ boat took us on the hip to the ramp.I am also a big fan of the CQR but aCQR would not have held in this situation.
Wanna hear a couple more?
And about those trawlers... thats alot of windage and you don''t know what size hook,how much chain, what size chain displacement of the boat depth of the water or scope. It;s been my observation that most power boaters have undersized hooks.

Dennis

[Jeff_H]

Hey Dennis, What happened to your nom''d board ''Pangaea''? I hardly recognized you.

Jeff

[windship]

Hi Jeff,
I bought a new P.C. I''m not excessivly knowlageable when it comes to ''puters and had problems so I started over. Of corse I couldn''t use ''Pangaea'',so I chose this one.
I knew I didn''t like the iMac(I didn''t buy it)so I picked-up a Compaq Presario 5000.
How do you think the iMac would do in grass and mud?

Dennis

[tsenator]

Dennis,

Sorry, my response was not meant to put down the Bruce anchor. After re-reading my response, I could see how it might appear that way. The Bruce is a fine anchor and from what I hear it is one of the quickest setting, which to me, is one of the most important attributes that an anchor could have. BTW. The Trawler looked like it had a lot of scope (all chain - more than I had rode) and a decent sized bruce, but as you said a Trawler has noticeably more windage and maybe there was something else going on.

[windship]

tsenator,
Thats cool...don''t sweat it.I''m going to bring up my CQR35 from the cellar and start keeping it on board again.


Evenin'' Jeff,
I don''t know how he made out because I can''t get my hotmail to except my password. It''s the other thing thats still not streightened out since I got this ''puter.
I do know his boat is an Endeavour 32 and the bildge holds about forty gallons or so without the fuel tank. (Twenty gallons). Mine is just in front of my steering set-up under the cockpit sole.To me thats a much better place to have it.
While I have you here... do you know how I can delete ''Pangaea''?

[OlausPetri]

You get more holding strength from putting the extra weight on a bigger anchor instead of on a thicker chain. I prefer to have a short chain to avoid wear on sharp rocks and the rest is an elastic nylon rope.

[noelex77]

Originally Posted by OlausPetri

You get more holding strength from putting the extra weight on a bigger anchor instead of on a thicker chain. I prefer to have a short chain to avoid wear on sharp rocks and the rest is an elastic nylon rope.

Hi and welcome to forum.
I agree with your thinking, but its worth looking at the dates on the thread. The original question was in 2002 so even with a boat owners typical procrastination I suspect he has alredy bought the chain.

[CapnBilll]

OOOH ,a thread from the grave. A few dozen posts ago the OP stated he had decided to up the chain. I would do the same. Yes buying a bigger anchor is good, but the heavier chain will make any anchor hold better.