Log Books

[Stillraining]

Whats wrong with you guys...

Our trips are so long and extensive that we have to have a dozen or so of these..Here is a picture of our navigator/page...filling in today's entry...She only gets 3 hours sleep per day and is writing full time trying to keep up with everything going on...I cant see how you Guys get by with so few pages..must be sailing slow with Chuckles sleeping under fake palm trees...mesmerized by big disco ball..saying arnt the stars lovely to night honey..wanta dance?

[sander06]

Originally Posted by carib14

Beyond the recording of memories and maintenance stuff, the log book becomes a legal document... which becomes your defense should it be required... or your support in warranty claims.

+1! In a world where "Sue" is not just a girl's name anymore, the ship's log is, indeed, a legal document for defense of actions.

[erps]

A three-ring binder isn't a legally useful document if you get into a problem, since the pages can be added and removed with no way to detect the alteration. Makes sense for the Maintenance and inventory sections, but not for the Ship's Log.

Yeah, I remember reading somewhere about the ship's log being a legal document if certain parameters were met (every page signed was one I think). On the other hand, I've introduced more than a few documents into different courts and being in a spiral binder wasn't one of the requirements to be admitted. A ship's log used in a court setting would most likely be used as notes to refresh a witness's testimony anyhooo.

[marlinbree]

After years of messing around with various pieces of paper and tablets, I finally developed my own Boat Log & Record. This is a single source of information about a boat and voyages that I have used it in all of my singlehanded voyages on Lake Superior. ( See my book, Wake of the Green Storm.). The BL&R is where I keep nearly everything I need to know about my boat, ranging from essential insurance information, names & addresses of key people, maintenance and troubleshooting data, onboard equipment, and specifications, to name a few. It also has a different sort of log, but one I have found to be ideally suited to a pleasure boater and intended to be used with navigational charts and GPS. I have a place for GPS waypoints to save, so I can look up my waypoints in the BL&R, in case the GPS goes out (it's been known to happen!) In other words, what I have tried to do is put evetyhing a pleasure boater in a small boat would want to collect and have handy in the way of information and resources about a boat and its voyages in a single volume. I use this book and many others do, too. I have no use for a formal naval log-type book and most sailors I know don't either. There's a fuller description of the Boat Log & Record on my website.

[sailingdog]

Yes, but pages in a three-ring binder can easily be substituted and there is no way to easily prove that there was no substitution.. so many lawyers would probably argue that the written statement of a three-ring-binder type log wasn't really necessarily accurate or even the original from the time of an accident or incident. If the log is hard-bound, then page substitution isn't an issue. Forgery or erasure is generally far easier to detect, and the log is much more likely to be authentic.

For instance, say your best friend has a USCG Captain's License, and was on watch when he hits a small fishing skiff, which he didn't see. The log indicates he was on watch at the time, and he could lose his USCG license. You, being his good friend, but only a recreational boater, decide that you're going to cover for him, so you rip out the page that says he was on watch, and replace it with one saying you were on watch... now, you've conspired to cover it up... and his USCG ticket is safe, unless you're caught in covering it up. With a three-ring binder log book... there's no way to prove you didn't do this. With a hard-bound log book, it is pretty easy to prove what was written in the log at the time is what is still in the log book now. Altering a document untraceably is much more difficult if you can't remove and add pages.

Originally Posted by artbyjody

I doubt that ship logs for a non-commercial vessel have any bearing in a lawsuit other than it is a documented evidence. A dairy doesn't have to be a bound book, a three ring binder is still a binded document....A binded notebook / log book doesn't have to have page numbers on it, in the end it is what happened and what was recalled - which is why for a recreational sailor it doesn't matter if the log is electronic or on separate 9X5 index cards...or pages in a 3 ring Binder..the mere fact that events can be recalled - the writing down is a bonus and allows one to state this is what I recorded at such and such a time (notebook, napkin, written on your forearm...etc)

Commercially and on military ships - it is different (they have SOPs)... and maybe in a court of law - if one was to get there... it would be recommended but not a judiciary requirement... evidence and recollection in whatever documented form is usually acceptable...besides if a ship goes under - and the log books with... seems a minor point when all said and done...

[erps]

Oh sailingdog. You could have video of the accident in your example and some lawyer is going to challenge the video's authenticity. I think this is a non-issue for recreational boaters but if you're convinced that a hardbound log is somehow more credible let me point out that some long haul truckers kept two log books to keep out of trouble for putting too many hours on the road. Any evidence being introduced needs to meet certain standards, usually just testimony of the person submitting it that it is what it is and it's unaltered.

[knothead]

[quote=JohnnyReb;283592]Do most sailors not use log books anymore?

I have often wondered the same thing.
Most of the captains that I have crewed for on deliveries did not keep a log unless specifically instructed to by the owner. Not a prudent practice in my opinion.

I have always maintained a log when cruising. I kept track of the oil changes, the weather and things of that nature while the admiral wrote down the names of the people and boats that we met and had potlucks with etc. She would relate things on a more emotional level while I was a bit more cryptic. After sailing from CA To FL and being rather remiss in the letter and postcard department, we sat down at her dad's computer and wrote a long "letter" complete with photos recapping the entire trip. It was very well received by all our friends and family. In fact when we were in the process of purchasing a home here in FL, the people who were helping up procure a loan insisted in making a copy of the log to show to the bank to explain why we showed no income for the previous year. (They did black out the part I wrote about wanting to stay out of the country until Bill Clinton was voted out after his first term).

On a transatlantic delivery I kept a log mainly as a way of being able to relate the trip to the admiral who did not accompany me. While I was able to remember most of the main events, being able to read about the day to day happenings was a good way to share it with her. Also, it's just a good way to vent when the tension starts to build on a long passage.

Bottom line, whatever you use to do it, keeping a log has lots of benefits.

[petegingras]

Mind sharing what happened that impressed you to keep a detailed log like that?

SSTampa,

Well not reading from the log itself… but the story goes that I became too caviler about arriving and anchoring in a harbor that I had become all too familiar with as a port, Cuttyhunk, MA (township of Goznald).

After midnight, following a cold front's passage, on my way, single handing from Newport to Vineyard Haven, MA I though it best to make port and rest before morning.

Now the harbor has a crowded inner harbor that has a tight mooring field with both floating mooring balls and fixed polls, and minimal anchorage inside the harbor. But I was very familiar with this limited anchorage and was confident I would obtain safe holding inside. I did not, after 45 minutes of setting, failed holdings, and two attempts to reset. That sent me outside the harbor, and two likely anchorages, one I was familiar with a one the other not, I generally note other anchorages and my visuals on other boats experiences. The wind was out of the dead South and negated the spot I was familiar with.

Well taking the unfamiliar option, I end up on Piece Ledge just after 2:15 am with the tide ebbing.

Morale I thought I would have at least two anchoring options, because I had safely anchored in two out of the three options I had available, and these were noted in my lg book from 4 seasons of sailing into Cuttyhunk. Come to find out, three years later, I was unfamiliar with 3 others, and my choice landed me on a rock.

Better to be on a boat, with a drink on the rocks, than in the drink with your boat on the rocks. Now all 5 anchorages are noted in my log book and my drinks are on the rocks in Cuttyhunk.

[LarryandSusanMacDonald]

What I learned in courses I took through U.S. Power Squadron is that a log book is indeed a legal document - but that to be accepted it has to be consistent.

For instance, you get run into at night while at anchor and the other boat claims you had no anchor light on. You claim that you did and show it in the log book exactly when it was turned on. If that is the only instance it ever appeared in your log book, its submission in court is going to be suspect. However, if you can go back for months and years and show that everytime you anchored you wrote in when the anchor light was turned on, and when it was turned off in the morning and each page is signed by the Captain - it is more likely to be believed.

We note everything - Saltwater Suzi is very, very adamant about it - and I sign each page. We keep track of everything notable, including the weather, ships seen at night, our location at changes of course, new headings, etc. It has never come to litigation, but if it were to, I'll bet that our log could be substantiated 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'

We've done this for the entire time we have owned the boat (11 years).

[Freesail99]

We note everything - Saltwater Suzi is very, very adamant about it - and I sign each page.

Which log do you use and is it a bound book?

Thanks