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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 04-12-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idiens View Post
So your answers:

1. Red ensign starboard spreader.
2. Canadian ensign
3. No
4. Yes - for a Canadian flagged yacht, but not for one registered in a EU state, unless it carries non-EU nationals, or has other customs and excise reasons for needing attention. In these latter cases, landfall only at a port of entry.
Thanks, Idiens, for your explanation. I assume that the nationality of the skipper and crew, dual or not, has no bearing on the "flagged" nature of the vessel: the registry and the ensign flown must agree.

I will carry a Red Ensign as a courtesy flag. I will only fly the Red Ensign at the stern if we register the boat in Britain, which isn't likely. My own nationality, if I understand this correctly, doesn't enter into it.

As my boat will always carry non-EU nationals in it, in the form of my all-Canadian wife and son (although he can claim dual citizenship via me and his British-born paternal grandfather, I suppose), I will always require a Q-flag on first touching a British port, and I suppose I will require that same Q-flag to clear into any European country, as they all run separate customs regimes.

I am still a little unclear on the V.A.T. issues for myself, and I have to be careful I remain sufficiently foreign despite the "other" EU passport to avoid incurring any avoidable fees. As the boat is federally registered and built entirely in Canada, I don't think it will be an issue...but it looks pretty Dutch to me...

Thanks again.
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  #12  
Old 04-12-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artbyjody View Post
This link will answer some of your questions:

http://www.rya.org.uk/KnowledgeBase/...getiquette.htm
Hmmm...according to this, I need to fly my club burgee (if I fly it at all, which I might if I wished to secure reciprocity) on a pigstick at the masthead, because I can't fly it above a starboard spreader courtesy flag, and yet can't have any flag "above" it on the same halyard.

Where the Jolly Roger will go is anyone's guess.
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Old 04-12-2008
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If you are going to be a real flag snob you need more than one halyard on each spreader.
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Old 04-13-2008
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"Good idea. Judy Millard was once my dentist...small world."

That's funny. I met the Millards at the Toronto boat show several years ago where they gave a seminar. Nice people, I spoke with Aubrey briefly. I'm sure the Beezer will appreciate the Millard's positive comments about their Ontario 32.
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Old 04-13-2008
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I have a Viking 33, hull 32, also made by Ontario Yachts, and we've thrown it off about the biggest waves our lake produces (not ocean height, but much more tightly grouped and "square"). I would take an Ontario Yachts boat 32 feet and over anywhere, as even the racing designs are well-built. I would put Hinterhoeller built boats, like the Niagara 35, in the same class of "bluewater capable". Judy and Aubrey are good sailors and Judy's size and strength mean that the 32 is a good fit, despite being smaller than I would like for stores, but then I think they prefer to cruise places where provisioning isn't an issue.
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2008
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Val, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that you only have to go to the port of entry with a Q flag for the first entry into that EU country. After that you can refer to it and go into harbours without customs/immigration. It is currently pretty relaxed, but tightening. I had a non-EU crew running into Edinburgh. After some telephoned advice, I took the crew and papers to Edinburgh airport, as they have customs and immigration officers there. It all went well, except the officer concerned expressed sadness that we had not invited him to visit us in Granton harbour - he would have enjoyed the day out.... So next time, I will offer the opportunity.

In Dover, I had to take the crew to the cross channel ferry docks and feed them in one side and nip round to the other to pick them up, they went through as ferry as passengers. Very odd. Frankly I don't think they actually look out for Q flags on yachts, but expect the skipper to turn up and do the formalities. But other countries, other rules. The Dutch have a form to fill in, but getting them is not so easy. However, they don't seem to mind, if everything is otherwise in order.

Rumour has it that from 2009, we will all have to inform the UK coast guard of our approach so many miles out.

The authorities are getting very interested in VAT payment. I think for a Canadian flagged yacht, you will have no trouble if you change countries every 6 months, but watch the Spanish, they are getting fast off the mark on the 185th day. I read Greece and Cyprus are getting unfriendly to other nations' yachts, in the sense they want money on sight.

You can get a lot of info from the RYA and the Cruising Association, which might be worth joining if you are coming across.
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2008
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Thanks, Idiens. I suspect the only benefit flashing my British passport will have is in putting me in "the green line" at airports. Hardly worth it in a sailboat.

I am HIGHLY unlikely to spend 180 days in a European berth, mooring or anchorage. I think it's more likely I would visit relatives in Cardiff, and then nip over to Ireland for some coasting before heading due south to Portugal, because Alex would kill me if I didn't visit Cascais on the way to the Azores. I think he wants to race or something...

I could tell from being a non-EU crew on his boat that they take their paperwork seriously there, but they seemed pretty efficient, nonetheless. I didn't have my British passport renewed at that point, otherwise it makes a great deal of sense to travel to Europe on that rather than the Canadian.

Strangely, I was attempting to saw off the pilothouse roof today and found just inside my American courtesy flag, which I have never flown as getting the certificate to visit the U.S. side of Lake Ontario requires a trip 20 miles out to the Toronto airport, and I don't have the car or that burning a desire....I could just go as a passenger in a private car with one-tenth the hassle.
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Old 04-15-2008
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Well, it's probably a lot easier to get into Europe on a foreign passport than into the USA. The visa waiver scheme makes it easier for those allowed to use it at airports and seaports but entry to the US on a yacht needs a full US visa, which is a bit more of a hassle to get than previously.
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  #19  
Old 04-15-2008
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At the risk of offending tradition and the rites of the sea etc - I understand the custom of flags and burgees and etc, but my experience has found the only flag absolutely required to be the Q on entry to a foreign port. I have never found a requirement (as opposed to tradition or custom) relating to either flag of country of documentation or flag of country being entered. Am I missing something?
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  #20  
Old 04-15-2008
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FWIW, I believe that the custom of raising the flag of a foreign country when entering it's waters has its roots in naval custom dating to the Renaissance, and was an indication that the captain and crew of a foreign-flagged vessel agreed to be subject to the laws and customs of the country they were visiting.
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