I like Catalinas..in fact I rather sail a brand new or recent Catalina or Dufour or Beneteau than an old sailing shoe....
I smile when I read about those that prefer a 1234 Valiant, or a 1677 Passport or even a pre-Colombian Cabo Rico...
the pre concieved idea that a 5 foot thick hull (because the old building procedures and methods were so archaic and since they didn't know better, layed layer over layer of glass to achive ridgidity by increasing thickness) is a better boat because it's hard as a tank makes me smile too...seem to forget these older boats sail like shoes...good on diesel...
Thank you Giu. I can only think that the frustrations suffered by Catalina haters watching the sugarscoop sterns disappear into the distance ahead are the root cause of their demeaning comments.
TB, lets be serious, the key word is "perceived value", and Catalina owners mostly do not leave the dock nevermind 'stray too far offshore', lets just call them a grill carrying dock condo with a sailing potential, which very rarely will be used!!!
Now ya have pushed it too far....
Dear Original Poster. This may seem like a tangent from the original question of new boats... but it should help to educate you, other noob's, and what is obviously many older (very, very old actually) salts that have posted on this thread in an effort to pursuade you to the Dark Side of the Boat.
As such, let me say that buying a boat can in some ways be compared to buying any means of transporation. I would tell you to get a comfortable vehicle. A safe and good for the whole family vehicle. If you have kids, get a minivan. You don't get the minivan for the kids... you get it for your sanity. If you can afford a Ford Excursion or a Lexus LX470 (with bigger being better), then that is the way to go. So I want you to think of a Catalina as a Lexus LX470... comfortable, classy, modern, roomy, more expensive than the competition - but its safety and durability make up for that.
Catalina =
Now, there are those who think that you should stick to the old ways... older is better. Save some money. Simple and archaic is durable and dependable. A little rust never hurt anyone. They think sails should be square and hulls made of wood. Here is how you can recognize these people - this is how they get to their boat (assuming it is still floating):
Stick with me now... cause this is important!! Now here is the really scarry bunch. They feel you should always be prepared. What happens if you were out sailing on a Sunday Afternoon and a Cat 5 Hurricane suddenly hit you? Eh? Or you were in the tropics and suddenly struck an ice berg the size of NJ?? Very likely, you know. Or (and my personal favorite which they always bring up) WHAT IF THE EARTH WAS HIT BY A METEOR THE SIZE OF THE MOON AND YOU HAD TO RIDE OUT THAT TIDAL WAVE? True... many Catalinas would never survive a 10,000 foot tall tidal wave. I will not mention names, but they (like TrulyBlue and MaxOff) will try and scare you. They will tell you to get a bullet proof shoe box. How do you recognize these guys?? This is what they drive around... just in case Cuba really does invade us, they will be prepared...
Finally, there are those that feel more is better. They like to be different. They have (gulp) multihulls!! They are a scary crowd and very wierd. They go to family reunions to pick up dates. They come back from the dump with more than they left with. They all sail south during the summer because they cannot go to weather to save their lives and must wait until the winds finally turn back north in winter to come home (oppostie of a duck). SO when you see this, I want you to think of a multihull sailor... a backwards duck out of water:
But to be serious for a moment, my biggest peeve with many of the price-boats being spurned off the production lines today, is not just being able to endure a 5 ft wave, but the deploring level of fit, finish and material choices used throughout the interiors and exteriors in many cases.
Personal tastes and styles vary greatly. A modernist may shake his head in disbelief when encountering people who have a passion for restoring classic boats - because they just don't get it. In contrast, a traditionalist trained to the sensitivities of honesty in construction and use of materials, will roll his eyes over the array of artificial wood and leather graining embossed onto plastics and vinyls in many of today's production boats. It's understandable why this is done - to keep costs down.
Placing structural integrity and personal design choices aside for the moment, who's kidding who with the practice of using faux finishes? If the material used is plastic or metal - use a machined texture, instead of creating the illusion that synthetic trees and hides of naugas actually exist.
These practices only degrade the perception of quality, among those who have the ability to tell the difference. All the rest go through life oblivious to being cheated out of their money by dishonest manufacturers
__________________ True Blue . . .
sold the Nauticat
The day after setting a 24-hour singlehanded record of 616 miles with his 97-ft trimaran IDEC, Frenchman Francis Joyon followed it up with a near 600-mile day yesterday. Today, however, the winds have died and he's limping along at a mere 15 to 17 knots. But Joyon says the winds will pick up again tomorrow, at which point he'll be 'galloping' again. . .
Yup... a totally backwards bunch.
__________________
Sailingdog Telstar 28
New England
You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.
—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)
If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this POST.
You really do have to understand.....the people buying Catalinas, Bene's, Hunters, Dufour, etc. really don't give a darn what you want to buy. They are buying what works for them! What works at the dock or sailing every day. What they can afford, or at least justify.
You buy yours....they buy theirs, and the market...no matter how crappy it is right now, goes on.
All kidding aside. Boy, we are making quite a tangent to his thread and may should consider a different thread alltogether (though I think the original question was answered).
Here goes my take on the boating industry.
First, I agree with you on many points. But we are generalizing on makes and models... which differ considerably within the sailboat indisutry.
I will give you one example: The new flooring on Catalinas. My Catalina 380 had real teak, wood floors all the way through. I love teak and those floors are very expensive. But look at the new floors (on the upper end models... not the cheap ones... apples to apples). They have moved into a laminate "looks like teak" over MG plywood. Why? Cost? Sure... I bet that has something to do with it. If you have read any of my post on building the table, you know teak is outrageously expensive and will not be getting any cheaper anytime soon. However, Catalina did this for another reason: long term use and practicality. You see, when you custom make a teak/holly floor on top of your liner, every one of them is slightly different. WHat happens if you get a water stain, major scratch in shipping, or years or dents and scrapes that make you want to cover it up with a rug? Well, you can replace that piece. Just call up Catalina and tell them which one you need. On the old floors, they would very likely not line up (the lines). Also, they will weather and darken (as we all know). However, the new laminate does not easily dent, will not weather, and will always line up. There are advantages to some of the changes.
What I DO NOT like are these vaneer covered plywood things that are coming out of certain factories these days. I have seen some stuff that I would not expect in a trailor... much less a 200k boat. On that point, I whole heartedly agree with you. In my opinion, Catalina has tried to avoid much of this on most of their models. However, I have seen less cabinetry in its place. Others keep the same level of cabinetry but make it cheaper. I don't know which one is better - I guess the Catalina model. But I would love to pay more for a boat and get more cabinetry than less for less cabinetry.
A screw may not be expensive. But when you multiply it times hundreds or thousands, it just became a major cost. I think that is why you will always see a difference between the the major production builders and more custom builders. Some changes are good. Some changes are bad. But with the costs associated with Sailboats these days, it is a wonder they even turn a profit.
You really do have to understand.....the people buying Catalinas, Bene's, Hunters, Dufour, etc. really don't give a damn what you want to buy. They are buying what works for them! What works at the dock or sailing every day. What they can afford, or at least justify.
You buy yours....they buy theirs, and the market...no matter how crappy it is right now, goes on.
Here,Hear - that's the spirit!
It is the production boats that are succeeding in getting more people introduced to the sport of sailing, without them many folks simply cannot afford to try it or cannot get interested. Nowadays more boat purchases are made by two individuals, one of which (female) better like it or it won't be purchased. She favors interiors over exteriors. Many of the newer production boats (Hunter) specifically target this half of the decision process, hence the dock condos. It better be a boat she likes or you are not getting one.
Thank you Giu. I can only think that the frustrations suffered by Catalina haters watching the sugarscoop sterns disappear into the distance ahead are the root cause of their demeaning comments.
hahahahhaahhaha
hey, for every one that disappears ahead ( usually disappearing in a crowd of 3000 just like it ) theirs other 3000 just like it at the dock firing up the BBQ.
I'll take my classic old shoe anytime, anywhere
__________________ s/v Ivey League II 1978 Tayana 37
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