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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2002
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New nvdz

MaryBeth,

And that brings up a very good point about "Sailors" and "Sailboats" and how we ARE different (in a good way).

For those who care and can make it there will be "Sail for America" on September 14, 2002, They want to fill New York Harbor with sails. BTW, Sept 14, will be the 188th aniversary of the writing of the "The Star Spangled Banner" by Francis Scott Key. It will also be the start of one leg of the " Around Alone race" (it was moved from Newport to NY for this one time event) and hopefully the USCG EAGLE will also be party of the ceremonies, and much more.


The goal is simple - to have the greatest gathering of sailboats ever in the history of the harbor. (I understand this is a one time event)

It will be three things. First, it will be a memorial to the people who died. Second, it will be a symbolic rebirth for the City of New York. Third, it will be a tribute to the soaring spirit of America - out of great tragedy and destruction, we Americans create a symbol of hope and beauty.
Just Imagine the whole New York Harbor FULL of sails quitely sailing up and down and all around downtown NY where the Statue of Liberty is and where the WTC used to stand. I think the beautiful and graceful sight will be a fitting and respectful tribute to the victims and all Americans from sailboaters.

This event will make all Sailboaters proud.

More details on Sail for America are at www.nyharborsailing.com.
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2002
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This really sounds dumb for all the wrong reasons. If you asked the average American who wrote the SSB 95% would not have a clue. Secondly, when polled most Americans believe that yacht racing is an elitist sport, 99% of the public could care less. Clogging up the waterways with a bunch of slow moving vessels will not bring back the 3000 people killed in the WTC nor will it help in any way, shape or form with the rebirth of NYC, that is to say if it needs to be rebuilt. This sounds like a stunt to make the living feel good rather than paying respect to those that are no longer with us or the families left behind. I hope most of you do not participate in this silly symbolic parade. Make a real difference and donate to one of the many charities.
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2002
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nomoss,

Your diatribe insults the intelligence of all of us. Let me explain to you how I know that your description of these "Executive Orders" is contrived.

First, if the President of the United States issued any such executive orders, the free American press would eagerly publish it, explaining in exquisite detail how our constitutional rights were being shamelessly violated. We wouldn''t have to hear about it for the first time from a nameless entity on the internet. I don''t believe everything the press publishes, but since I have not read anything about it in the press, I sure don''t believe it when I hear it from you. (But perhaps you think the members of the American press are the lackeys of the President.)

Secondly, many years ago, the American Civil Liberties Union appointed itself as the guardian of our constitutional rights, and its members have never shown themselves to be hesitant to file lawsuits intended to invalidate any unconstitutional laws. The purported Executive Orders that you discuss would be so blatantly contrary to the fundamental beliefs of all Americans that the ACLU would be utterly incapable of restraining itself from filing legal action against the United States government to invalidate them.

I have an idea. If you will obtain complete, verbatim texts of each of these purported Executive Orders and post them on this website, I will go to the law library (I''m a lawyer) and get a true copy of the actual Executive Orders, and we''ll compare them, to see if you are making this up. Then we can all judge for ourselves the truthfulness of your representations. I shall eagerly await your next communication, nomoss.
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2002
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Wow Denr, you saying this is a dumb idea just makes it sound like an even better idea! You NEVER say anything positive....you have "sour grapejuice" running through your veins. God I feel sorry for your neighbors and everyone who has to meet you.

No, it will not bring back the 3000 people, but it is a symbol and I know most of the people around here will like it. I know some of the people that were killed, I have donated (and so have millions of Americans) and there has been many $$ distributed & earmarked for NY. (And are you saying NY doesn''t "need to be rebuilt"?!?----You, my freind, are an idiot ! ) What NY needs is not more money, but it would appreciate something that can lift their spirits. Everything people do in life is to make the living feel good....crying and wringing yours hands will not bring back those people. But remembering them often and moving on with our lives in their spirit will be a better dedication to what they sacrificed, forgeting about them is the mistake!

And Secondly, this is not just about yacht racing, you fool, know what you are talking about before you open your mouth....this is for ANY sailing vessels, that includes, cruisers, mom & pop''s, kids, daysailors AND windsurfers! It is ALL inclusive.

In fact, onboard the EAGLE, they would like to have children who lost a parent on 9/11 ride on the Eagle and be "Special Guests" . Maybe in your cold heart you would think this is a waste and frivolous. But these children would be able to look out over the harbor and see it filled with boats sailing in the memory of their parents I am sure it would be a memory that they will always cherish.

And I am sorry you feel that this would be "Clogging up the waterways with a bunch of slow moving vessels". I guess Op Sail in 1976, 1992 & 2000 were a waste of time too. If you are so down on this why don''t you just get out of sailing all together.

I''d love to hear comments from other people.


You are such a downer and negative person, at times you make me and lots of other people ill. So Denr....do us a favor and stay FAR away from NY harbor...ok?
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  #15  
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Having lived in NYC for over 20 years, anything that helps boost the City''s moral is a good thing. Even if not one thin dime is raised by this event, the local economy will be lifted. (Assuming participants will need to eat and drink, and some may need to dock or moor their boats or seek land-based recreation.)

If I could, I''d be there, but instead I''ll try to sail by the place (Ft. McHenry) where Francis Scott Key got the inspiration to write the words to the National Anthem.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #16  
Old 06-21-2002
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New nvdz

Please give denr his Valium. Someone forgot to give him his sedatives today.
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  #17  
Old 06-22-2002
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To Sailormon6
"the free American press"?
American corporate-journalism! You are joking are you not?
Quoting Dan Rather
"On my network and other networks, we''ve stopped telling news.
We''re not allowed to ask question. It would be unpatriotic.
We''ve stopped being journalists."
Executive Orders have been around from the start of this government.
Start reading! Start Looking! It''s 1933!! or is it 1938?
Or just keep your head in the sand.
Read the links, And the links they can take you to...
http://www.gregpalast.com/
Bush''s Police State Kicks Into Gear
http://athena.tbwt.com/content/article.asp?articleid=989
http://liberty.hypermart.net/index.htm

I''m not a conspiracy person, But to quote FDR.
"Anything that happens in politics does not happen by accident, If it happens it was planed."
I love to sail, I love where I live, And YES I have lived out of this county..
But am not happy with the best Government money can buy!
I''m not conservative, I''m not a liberal, I do believe in the constitution and that the government live by it! IT''S THE LAW THE GOVERNMENT MUST LIVE BY!
Or it is no longer the USA.
Believe little of what you read, nun of what you see or hear.
But read ALL you can, and for WHO''S agenda is it for?
Take ALL with a gran of sand,
But sand will build up to make a sand bank will it not?
Wake-Up!
What is happening to this country?
The Government is out of control and it''s becoming a police state!
Why?


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  #18  
Old 06-22-2002
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In my last message I suggested you lay your cards on the table, to see if there is any truth to what you say. So far, all you have done is give me another harangue. Just produce the purported Executive Orders, and lket us read them for ourselves, and we''ll judge whether or not you are a truthful person. I''m still waiting.
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  #19  
Old 06-22-2002
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Hey nomoss!

Check the following website:

http://www.archives.gov/federal_register/executive_orders/kennedy.html

At that site you will find a list of Executive Orders. You will find that Executive Orders 10995 through 11005 were adopted by John F. Kennedy (not George W. Bush)in 1962. They were revoked in 1969.

Let me explain the significance of those facts. When Chaplain Ammerman spoke to the group about those Executive Orders in 1997, he either didn''t know, or he chose not to disclose to you, the fact that those Executive Orders had been revoked eight years previously. Therefore, he wasted your evening talking about something that no longer existed, and, since that time, you have been wasting our time, and that of many other people, talking about something that was repealed many years ago.

Executive Order 13010, which you indicate is "new," was actually adopted six years ago by William Jefferson Clinton (not George W. Bush) in 1996. It, too, was subsequently repealed in part.

It was well-said by one of our past Supreme Court Justices that the United States Constitution is not a suicide pact. It safeguards our fundamental rights, but not at the expense of our ultimate freedom. The Constitution was written broadly, so that it can adapt to contemporary needs. If the powers that are necessary for our protection are contemplated and authorized by the Constitution, then anything the President might do pursuant to those powers is Constitutionally valid. So far, I haven''t seen President Bush violate anyone''s rights. On the contrary, so far he appears to have given a great deal of serious thought to the matter, to be sure his actions meet the test of the ages. We are holding prisoners of war, but every civilized nation recognizes our right to do that. We are holding people accused of violating our criminal laws until a trial can be held, but every civilized nation recognizes our right to do that. Under our Constitution, if anyone is being unlawfully deprived of his/her liberty by the government, s(he) has a right to file a writ of habeas corpus, to contest the illegality of his/her detention. Thus, even if someone''s rights are being violated, our Constitution provides a lawful remedy for it. If someone''s rights are violated, and if our Constitution fails to provide a remedy, then I will be concerned.

You need to ignore those links that are written by uninformed, misguided, or evil people who delight in shocking people with misinformation.

If you still want to argue about this, don''t bother. I''ve wasted enough time on this silliness. I''d rather be sailing.
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2002
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Well It looks like some of you still don’t get the point (ask about my rule of 10%) and some of you cant comprehend (Marybeth"Okay, we''re turning into a police state."
are you stuck on stupid???) I would like to know who is in charge of the flotilla in the NY harbor during this melee? The USCG? I hope it isn’t anything like the tall ships that converged on Phila. Every small township pissant ,jealous ,bird and turtles officer with a hard on for all the “elitist boaters” out having fun. Reinforcing his or her territorial imperative. I heard many of the stories of the disgruntled boaters at the following league meeting about the way the no float zone was handled. I shake my head in disbelief, because I can not bitch slap someone for the ball busting that happens at these “awe inspiring logistic nightmares to send a message to someone somewhere, cause I wont just stand here and do nothing”

A small inconvenience as set forth by an EO isn’t ok. The simple fact that any of these things can occur ,sucks, is in violation your rights, and PISSES me off. I WONT chalk another one up to ”shut up and go somewhere else if you don’t like it” What do you think this country is all about? Freedom of speech? Im exorcising my only currently available right, SO you shut up.

We boaters just sit idly by and take another one in the ass for the;
A. A Cause
B. Freedom
C. Government
D. Environment
E. War on something against someone, I cant seem to remember who exactly but the news says so, so I’m for all that. Duh, I think I’m safe now.
You choose one or many
I had no idea how many EO’s are out there. Does anyone know when the government gave itself the power against us without telling us? A date? Anything?
The funniest thing is, we vote them in and pay for them to do it to us, they smile and reassure us and take away anything they think we will abuse. And most of you really think its for our betterment.
Its easy to spot a free thinker, he is the one the sheep are in confederacy against.
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