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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #21  
Old 06-24-2002
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As a (Vietnam Era) Navy Vet, I take issue with anyone who thinks they have a right to sail (or motor) anywhere they please. Even before 9/11, you were not allowed to come within 100 yards of any FBM Sub. Since 9/11, the Navy has asked that all their ships be provided the same buffer zones as FBM Subs.

As a former Navyman, I think the lives of our serviceman are in enough peril without adding the potential harm that can be caused by a boater with sinister plans. I for one don''t want to ever hear about another tragedy like the one that occured to the U.S.S. Cole. If that means you and I have to steer clear of Navy ships (or other sensitive sites), so be it.

It''s not like we are being told we can''t sail at all. I don''t know where you sail, but the Chesapeake is big enough for all of us, even when we have to stay clear of restricted areas.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2002
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928 Frenzy
None of you have responed to my querry why the Captain of the USS Cole didn''t take any precautions? I refer you to my last post on this forum. Again; security begins at home!
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2002
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To stop or prevent another tragedy like the USS Cole from happening again is very very simple. Keep the us war ships where they are out of peril. MYOB. (mind our own biz) for a change. Why do I need to stop sailing past the fleet in Norfolk? I pose no threat whatsoever to any of the national security. But its now my burden. WHY? what did I do? What if I dont like the way things are being handled? What if i think that the voting process really elects a president? Just sit back, shut up, and trust my gov? They got us here in the first place. When was the last time you heard a gov official admit his blunder? How about Macnamera and Johnson 20 years after the Vietnam war. Oops, we were wrong, sorry.I didnt know what else to do.and I''m real sorry about blowing all that smoke up your ass, but im dead now and i cant change history. ya know, keeping up with the joness and all that. looking back, the "advisors" we sent to the area got a little out of hand.
Now jump to today and look at Manilla. Do i see a pattern? Ive been called a lot worse than isolationist.I dont see what being a Vet has to do with jack?
OK im done for the day.
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  #24  
Old 06-24-2002
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colehankins you ask "I would like to know who is in charge of the flotilla in the NY harbor during this melee? The USCG? I hope it isn’t anything like the tall ships that converged on Phila. Every small township pissant ,jealous ,bird and turtles officer with a hard on for all the “elitist boaters” out having fun. Reinforcing his or her territorial imperative."

I don''t know what happened in Phil. but during the 1992 and the 2000 Op Sail in NY Harbor there wasn''t any "township pissant ,jealous ,bird and turtles officer". Just the NY harbor police and the CG from what I remember and they were all very cooperative. I think they were all more concerned with general safety than inhibiting your rights. And even back then, before 9-11, they were enforcing some sort of ndvz around some navy ships,(I think I remember a carrier) but in no way did anyone think it was obtrusive or overbearing.

Cole, just curious, because I''m trying to understand your position. Are you saying we should let any boat sail/motor up to any navy ship as close as they want? What if they are one of the "bad guys" loaded with TNT?
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  #25  
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I am bothered by the fact that the uscg makes up regs as it sees fit, but,Lets beat up your theory with math. Take 1 laden powerboat doing a measly 30 kts from 500 yards, how much time do you have to stop them? Even Luke Skywalker destroyed the death star with a little xwing fighter and he had the computer turned off! Trying to figure me out? I’m wholly of the ounce of prevention school. Why are the zealots and soon to be martyrs pissed? Come on, come on, you can say it---they were robbed in 67, and a flubbed attempt on osamas life. Why is that now my problem? Say it! Who is the strongest lobby? more so than the nra?
I am reminded of the scene in a fish called Wanda with a steam roller, I digress,30 seconds? In norfolk to observe the 500 yd no float zone my boat would have to be on a trailor in the next town
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  #26  
Old 06-25-2002
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I understand your point about why we are in the current position we find ourselves. I also agree with many of the points regarding what we should have done (or not done) to prevent being in that position. However, that was then and this is now, so we have to deal with this situation.

For starters, Star Wars was fiction. You asked how much space and time is needed to stop a motorboat from ramming into a moored Navy ship? It depends on how fast the boat is approaching, the radius of the ristricted area, and the watchman''s response. 30 knots is over 3000 feet per minute which is over 50 feet per second. If the restricted zone is 100 yards, the person on watch has less than 6 seconds to decide what action (if any) to take. I don''t know about you, but I sure wouldn''t want to be the watchman who has to decide whether or not to shoot at (what appears to be) a pleasure craft. All this can be avoided if we all stay clear of restricted areas.

Remember, we are at war. During times of war there will be restrictions imposed that would not be imposed if we were at peace. For example, ask your folks or grandparents about "rationing" during WWII.

Lastly, instead of giving the USCG a hard time, we should be providing them assistance and support for the job they have to do, which has been made considerably harder since 9/11.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #27  
Old 06-25-2002
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I''ve been to Norfolk. A 500 yard buffer zone around U.S. Naval vessels is not going to require you to keep your boat on a trailer in the next town. By exaggerating, you weaken your point(s) considerably.

Now put yourself in the position of the night watchman on one of those Naval vessels. You now have less than 30 seconds to decide what to do if an unothorized boat were to enter the ship''s restricted area. The wrong decision could mean the lives of innocent civilians who have lost control of their pleasure craft, or it could be the loss of hundreds of Navy Service men and women at the hands of a terrorist. Sorry, your time is up. :^(

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #28  
Old 06-25-2002
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"However, that was then and this is now" I dont get it? what does this have to do with anything. Havent you been paying attention? Were your kin lied to about the war and rationing? Had we minded our own biz we wouldnt be in that war.Thanks be to the Gov. Wanna talk about Dolittle?
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colehankins,

Yes I have been paying attention. When you say "had we minded our own biz we wouldnt be in that war" are you talking about WWII? It is delusional to think that if the US would have stayed as an "isolationist" country everything would be fine back then. The world would have looked alot different and I bet alot gloomier today. I bet you also adhere to the theory that the holocuast never happened and is a propaganda ploy by the government and those in power.

I have to agree with "frenzy". BTW, (Other than sailing really close to a Navy Vessel) is your life so encumbered by the government that you can''t enjoy any liberties. I also think searching 75 year old grandmothers and taking their nailclippers at the airport is ridiculous. I admit to "libertarian" leanings but you off the chart !
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  #30  
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I''m not suprized that you "don''t get it". Knowing now what we should have done to avoid where were are now may help us from making the same mistakes in the future, but we have to deal with the situation as it is now, and not how we think it should have been if only we had done this or that. 20/20 hindsight is always perfect. Debating now whether we should have gotten involved in Vietnam is very easy. Of course not! Debating it back in 1963 was another matter.

I''m sure the Capt. of the U.S.S. Cole would have blown that attacking powerboat to smithereens had he known what was about to occur. I''m also quite sure that soon afterwards, the Navy increased the buffer zones around their vessels while in foreign and (thanks to 9/11) while in home ports. Can you blame them?

Lastly, why do you want to get closer to a U.S. Navy ship? Do you have to alter your course that much because of the larger restricted zone? Seems like you''re making a mountain out of a molehill.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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