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  #31  
Old 06-25-2002
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colehankins,

You sound like a guy who took the civil service exam to become a bird and turtle officer, but flunked the test. Since they won''t let you be one, you have dedicated your life to ripping them at every opportunity.

You have incorrectly assumed that you have a legal "right" to sail by the fleet. All of our rights and all of the government''s powers are circumscribed by the Constitution. Article I, Section 8 authorizes the Federal Government to "…provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States." A rule that requires vessels to maintain a safe distance from our navy ships protects the ships of our fleet, and is constitutionally authorized by Article I, Section 8. The bombing of the USS Cole makes the necessity of a zone of safety obvious to everyone but you. With such an appalling lack of judgment, it''s no wonder you flunked the bird and turtle test.

Using your mathmatical example, 30 seconds isn''t much time for a young sailor to decide whether a small boat constitutes a real threat that should be machine-gunned, or whether it is just some dumb teenager in his dad''s boat. It doesn''t take very much time to blow someone away. It takes longer to correctly make the life or death decision to do it. If you have never had the responsibility to make such a decision, you might not appreciate the difficulty.

The fact that most of us have quietly accepted the safety zone does not make us apathetic. Most of us would not hesitate to raise our voices in defense of liberty, but there is no honor in raising your voice in furtherance of stupidity. As citizens, it is our civic duty to accept and comply with all valid laws and regulations that have been adopted for our mutual health and safety. We don''t have to like them, but we are obligated to comply with speeding laws, traffic light laws, right of way laws, DUI laws and criminal laws. The First Amendment protects your right to whine about those laws, but, if you violate that separation requirement, don''t be surprised when fifty caliber slugs splinter your little dinghy.

You asked, "Does anyone know when the government gave itself the power against us without telling us? A date? Anything?" Actually, the government did not give itself that power. Our ancestors conferred that power on the federal government when, after fighting successfully to win their freedom, they ratified the U.S. Constitution. A minimum of nine states were required for ratification. The ninth state (New Hampshire) ratified it on June 21, 1788.

I notice that you proudly regard yourself a free thinker. Free thinkers are rightly honored by our society, because they often see better ways of doing things. The founders of this country were free thinkers. But, that honor can only be conferred upon you by others, in acknowledgment of your meritorious ideas. You can''t confer it on yourself, especially when your thoughts are not meritorious.

I know you think you could run the world a whole lot better than the people currently in power, but the rest of us are praying to God that guys who think like you never get any real power.
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  #32  
Old 06-25-2002
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New nvdz

Im glad you know so many people that have failed the B&T test as to judge me. Birds and turtles, HA I was a petty officer in the USCG. And a coxswain. Just running around heavily armed, stopping people in boats, busting balls, all at 20 years old and no (MLE) maritime law training. So what? They said it was a good plan!
What I think you still fail to grasp is the Gov to run rough shod over any remaining “rights or privileges “ that haven’t been usurped already. I give the navy plenty of berth with my little sailboat. And just try to travel down the ICW from Portsmouth and not violate the NDZ. Since the regulation doesn’t exclude ships in dock or SLEP you may stand tall before the man.

Whining? If you are looking to have your revenge on the bombing of the uss cole , place the burden on the perpetrators, not the law abiding. Since that cant be done , just lump some of that good’ole heap of patriotic duty on the home folk. They’ll take it! they always do. Hell they love it!

“As citizens, it is our civic duty to accept and comply with all valid laws and regulations that have been adopted for our mutual health and safety” please take that humdrum patriotic dripple and live it for yourself. I don’t know who drilled that junk into your mushy little head, but, I don’t agree. All this might makes right approach.
Weren’t you one of the original signers of the 9th state that ratified it on June 21, 1788.

Why don’t motorcycles have to buckle up or face the same $125 fine as cars? Do you think a gov that gave a rats ass would see that motorcycles are too dangerous? The riders suffer more injury and illness after a wreck. And the general public isn’t capable of safe operation (why I sold my Z1 900) Or do they just want the money?
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  #33  
Old 06-25-2002
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New nvdz

Sailormon well said! Billy Joel must have been thinking about colehankins when he wrote that song that sang about "Angry Young Man"

There''s a place in the world for the angry young man
With his working class ties and his radical plans
He refuses to bend, he refuses to crawl,
He''s always at home with his back to the wall.
And he''s proud of his scars and the battles he''s lost,
And he struggles and bleeds as he hangs on the cross
And he likes to be knowns as the angry young man.

Give a moment or two to the angry young man,
With his foot in his mouth and his heart in his hand.
He''s been stabbed in the back, he''s been misunderstood,
It''s a comfort to know his intentions are good.
And he sits in a room with a lock on the door,
With his maps and his medals laid out on the floor
And he likes to be known as the angry young man.

I believe I''ve passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight.
I once believed in causes too,
I had my pointless point of view,
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right.

And there''s always a place for the angry young man,
With his fist in the air and his head in the sand.
And he''s never been able to learn from mistakes,
So he can''t understand why his heart always breaks.
But his honor is pure and his courage as well,
And he''s fair and he''s true and he''s boring as hell
And he''ll go to the grave as an angry old man.
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  #34  
Old 06-25-2002
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New nvdz

That last question about seatbelts for motorcycles seems to make everyone elses point. Better still, I''m suprized you didn''t create a strawman argument for requiring ALL motorists to wear helmets.

This whole topic has gotten quite silly with your missing-the-point diatribes. The facts are that none of us have a right to sail wherever we please. Heck, we don''t even have a RIGHT to use a boat or a car. The fact that we need to register these vehicles implies that we are requesting permission (from the State of registry) to use them. (Don''t take my word for it, tell the DMV you''ve removed the tags from your car and see if they don''t mind.) Good luck!

Your ideas of fewer rules or eliminating rules you think are restrictive is all well and good for you. Since majority (usually) rules, get 51% (or more) to agree with you, and then make the changes. Till then, live and abide by the rules or suffer the consequences.

~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~
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  #35  
Old 06-26-2002
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New nvdz

Sailormon6, thanks for displaying a clear mind and sound judgment through this disaster of a posting, I think "somebody" is a little paranoid , has been watching too many movies, and has trouble distinguishing between reality and imagination., every generation has that little faction that voices loud complaints against the government, wants to be held accountable for nothing, and thinks the problems of the world will disappear if the U.S. turns a blind eye to all that goes on around us.
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  #36  
Old 06-27-2002
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ndsailor you are right.

But, do you know what?..... As kooky as they are and as fanatical as they are, I am glad that there are (a few) people like colehankins out there. I think its good that we have these people *way* out on the political ends (both left and right). I think it keeps everyone and this country "honest" about issues and things. Not that I really agree with colehankins (or any other extreemists), but sometimes that ''lone voice'' needs to listened to and their information digested. Because sometimes, through all their wacked out ideas or theory''s, there are little bits of "things or ideas" that have some merit that needs to be gleaned out.

Though, I hope colehankins relax''s just a bit and enjoys a little more in life .... especially being a sailor. And I hope he gives the Navy or the USGC or whatever government agency a little more leeway (both figuratively and literally) when he is out enjoying himself on the water. However misguided he thinks these agencies are, I trully beleive from the bottom of my heart that the VAST majority are trying to do the right thing for the people of this county.

Have a GREAT July 4th on the water this year and remember.....this country is not perfect but it is pretty damn good, we try really hard and I am very proud of what it does do and what it stands for.

Tom
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  #37  
Old 06-27-2002
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Yo Tom
"(or any other extremists)" I take offense. By the mere fact that I said watch out for your Gov labels me an extremists? By telling you that your gov is wrong/abused its powers, should aide you to make more informative decisions at the voting booth( not that it will change anything) I love the fact that this forum allows me to vent or impart my opinion about boating. Just like jeff_h.who i have a tremendous amount of respect for. The opposite side of the coin isn’t always the wrong side, is it? About the retort about free thinkers. Its years later after his death when the free thinker gets his due. While breathing, the free thinker is usually shunned and sometimes jailed then killed. Search your mental database.Sailormon6 if you were a man, i''d kick your ass for GP
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  #38  
Old 06-27-2002
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Quote- "Sailormon6 if you were a man, i''d kick your ass for GP." -End Quote

Colehankins, if you were a man, I''d be scared.
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  #39  
Old 07-18-2002
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New nvdz

I do know a lot do not like what I say, But ...You do know it needs to be said.


The Roots of Terrorism By John Pugsley
June marks the beginning of the tenth month in the War on Terrorism, or as Doug Casey calls it, "the Forever War."
Forever seems to be an accurate description of war in general, as inter-tribal aggression has been a characteristic of Homo sapiens from the beginning. Anthropologists classify it as a general characteristic of hunter-gatherer social behavior.

Harvard professor Edward O. Wilson calls the practice of war "...a straightforward example of a hypertrophied biological predisposition [emphasis added]. With the rise of chiefdoms and States, this tendency became institutionalized, war was adopted as an instrument of policy of some of the new societies, and those that employed it best became -- tragically -- the most successful."7 As a result, six thousand years of recorded history appears as an endless series of wars interspersed with brief periods of recuperation and rearmament.

Terrorism is the easiest if not the only strategy of war left open to a group that cannot directly attack or defend against a superior armed force. The U.S. colonists who were confronted with the superior army of King George saw the futility of following the accepted rules of war. They fired from behind trees and walls, engaged in sabotage, tarred and feathered innocent Tories, and thus were denigrated as rabble terrorists by the British. In our day, the Israeli commandos that blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946 were called terrorists.

But the actors change costumes as power shifts. When ''terrorist'' tactics succeed in overthrowing the incumbent power structure, terrorists are reclassified in the history books. Today Sam Adams and John Hancock are remembered not as terrorists but as heroic freedom fighters. Menachem Begin, who ordered the destruction of the King David Hotel, subsequently became Israel''s Prime Minister and went on to win the Nobel Peace Prize.

The chameleon nature of "terrorists" and "freedom fighters" leaves politicians struggling to distinguish terrorism from their own strategies of aggression. The U.S. Department of Defense, for example, defines "terrorism" as "the calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological." 8 It seems a perfect description of the U.S. military, or the armed forces of any major power.
Considering mankind''s innate aggressive tendencies, can the War on Terrorism ever be won? Can we end the Forever War?


Yes. But it will never be accomplished through military victory. The solution to all forms of war, including terrorism, will be found in a deeper understanding of man''s biological programming.

We are each endowed with powerful primal instincts that natural selection perfected as survival mechanisms long before Homo sapiens was a twinkle in evolution''s eye. All life forms require two things: an instinct for self-preservation and for procreation. Two powerful primal instincts that support self-preservation and procreation are territoriality and hierarchy. Today, these instincts are permanently hardwired into all mammals. They dominate human behavior, and therefore hold the key to the solution of inter-tribal aggression.

The territorial instinct is the internal, subconscious program that urges almost all animals to mark the boundaries of their chosen habitats, defend against intrusions, and battle for food, lairs and mates. In humans, the territorial instinct pushes us to acquire property, and defend it against threats, theft, and trespassing. We "mark" our land with deeds, our bank accounts with name and number, and our mates with rings and contracts. We are angered and enraged when our property is taken.

The hierarchical instinct pushes us to seek approval, climb the social ladder, and achieve dominance among our peers. In the non-human animal world it is documented everywhere from the struggle for the position of alpha male in primate groups to the pecking order of chickens. In human culture, the drive for status creates the endless battle for political power and the insatiable desire for property.

Viewed through the lens of these two primal instincts, the root of all conflict is the innate, subconscious drive in all humans to acquire and defend resources. When individuals feel their territory has been attacked, they instinctively feel rage and seek vengeance. As Wilson notes, under the sway of our primal instincts we are "...strongly predisposed to slide into deep, irrational hostility."9 Contrary to the nonsense perpetrated in the media, suicide bombers don''t sacrifice their lives in hopes of a sexual paradise in the afterlife. Their irrational hostility boils up from deep within the limbic system of their brains. Their primal instincts take control.

Such instincts are not devils that can be exorcised through fear or punishment. As long as people feel their property has been stolen from them, their primal instincts will urge them to seek revenge at any cost. The answer to minimizing human conflict, and particularly war, will be the design of a social contract that protects every individual''s property. Our innate human nature leads directly to the conclusion that the Forever War will end when all of us are sovereign individuals, and we feel securely in control of our individual lives and property.

------------------------------------------------

If John Pugsley''s thinking makes sense to you ... it''s a breath of fresh air to me each month! ... you''re hereby invited to visit http://www.sovereignsociety.com/ & at least subscribe to his freebie letter & eventually subscribe to his regular monthly newsletter.



"There''s no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love. There is only a scarcity of resolve to make it happen." -- Wayne Dyer


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  #40  
Old 07-20-2002
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nomoss,

You have cut-and-pasted the words of someone who writes nice prose, but he fundamentally repeats one basic thought over-and-over. We humans have instinctive drives to acquire property and comforts, and to procreate, and we are willing to repel, with force, any effort by outsiders to harm our families or to take our property, and that instinct is the underlying cause of war.

For centuries, all the greatest minds that mankind has been able to produce have not been able to find a way to stop people from going to war against each other from time-to-time. The best minds of this century thought that WWI would be the war to end all wars, and they thought that WWII would be the last great war, but we know that we have not seen the last war. Nevertheless, your Mr. Pugsley believes that he has found the solution that has eluded all the greatest minds since the inception of humankind. He has found the way to end all war. (Is it possible that he is suffering from a touch of egomania?) He says, "The solution to all forms of war, including terrorism, will be found in a deeper understanding of man''s biological programming."

Now, let''s explore the "depth" of his thinking. Mr. Pugsley explains that, we humans are biologically programmed to acquire food, property and creature comforts and to procreate, and we are willing to repel, with force, any effort by outsiders to harm our families or to take our property. By my way of thinking, that is not a very "deep" concept. It''s actually a thought that has passed through the mind of Everyman. At some time or another, all of us have thought we might have to defend, with force, our families or our property.

Mr. Pugsley believes that, if we truly want to end all wars, all we have to do is find "a deeper understanding" of the above concept. Mr. Pugsley doesn''t say what more we need to understand about that concept. Perhaps he believes that we do not understand that other people don''t want us to harm their families or to take their property, just as we don''t want them to harm our families or to take our property. Mr. Pugsley believes that, if we respect the rights of murderous, suicidal, barbarians who strap bombs to the bodies of their children, and who kiss them good-bye, and send them off to die, then they will respect our rights. If that is the revolutionary idea that the "deep thinking" Mr. Pugsley has stumbled upon to put an end to war, I''m afraid Mr. Pugsley can''t claim to be the original author of that idea. That idea is known as the "golden rule," and that idea has been the basis of every system of law that has ever been devised by civilized man. It is an idea that is inculcated into every child by his or her parents, school and church, but, despite all those efforts, and the best of intentions, we still have wars.

Mr. Pugsley proposes that "The answer to minimizing human conflict, and particularly war, will be the design of a social contract that protects every individual''s property," but that, too, is not a new idea. Where has old Pugsley been for, oh, say, the last century? We devised numerous social contracts in an effort to put an end to war. That''s why the League of Nations, and the United Nations, and a whole plethora of treaties were created, but none of them succeeded in their lofty goal. Why? Because people comply with contracts only as long as they believe it is beneficial to them to do so. When someone like Saddam Hussein decides not to comply with a peace agreement that requires that he allow inspections, to ensure that he is not manufacturing weapons of mass destruction, how do we enforce that contract? We have an absolute, indisputable right to seek assurance that he isn''t secretly manufacturing nerve gas, biological warfare agents and nuclear weapons to use against our citizens within our own borders. We can sue him, perhaps in a world court. (That is an idea that is frequently proposed by anti-war crowd.) But, all a court can do is enter a judgment on a piece of paper, and perhaps order that Mr. Hussein comply with the contract. But, what do you do if he disobeys the court order? That piece of paper doesn''t automatically solve the problem. It has to be enforced in some meaningful way. We have tried imposing sanctions, but they have not been successful. Should we just sit here and wait for these barbarians to nuke the City of New York, or Chicago, or Los Angeles? That would relegate President Bush to a place in history alongside Nero, who, you will remember, fiddled while Rome burned. President Bush has decided to pre-empt the threat, to intervene before the threat becomes reality, and he''s right in doing so.

If Mr. Pugsley finds a way to end all wars, I will be the first to suggest that we erect a monument to his greatness, but, before we erect that monument, Mr. Pugsley needs to flesh out his idea a bit more. So far, I haven''t seen anything but shallow, common platitudes in Mr. Pugsley''s thinking, and we don''t build monuments to such twaddle. I don''t understand how you can inhale those old, stale, failed ideas, and call it "a breath of fresh air."

I also don''t understand why you persist in posting this propaganda on a sailing website.
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