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colehankins 05-30-2002 06:25 AM

New nvdz
It seems to me that we now have a new burden in the war(?) against terror. Its the navel no float zone as made up by the USCG. It isnít even a law, but a regulation from the USCG. I didnít know the USCG makes up laws or regulations for the boating public. I always thought they were the enforcement arm of congress in regards to maritime law and safety. I also canít remember anytime a navy boat was attacked by a US citizen in home waters. I was appalled by the audacity of the USCG to ask where I was going a week after the 911. Its none of your god damn business where Iím going. Take your regulation and shove it up your nose. Its just more attempts by underpaid officials to undermine your freedom to sail past the fleet. I cant stand the ideas of putting the burden of the law on abiding citizens to somehow lull us into the false sense that the correct actions have been taken .Did you think that THIS law will stop the infidels? Look at boat and car registrations what good, other than raise money for the coffers does it do? I can assure it doesnít trickle down to improvements to the availability of pump out facilities. And its not just this NVDZ its every thing like, unwarranted searches at the airport, a direct violation of my civil rights against unreasonable search. And you pay an additional $10 on your ticket for that privilege. A poll suggests that most people donít mind having their rights violated in the interest of being more secure at the airport. I would like to see some designer colors for the office of home land security warnings. Did any one know about the plot to destroy the Wtcs? What does it matter now. itís a little late. Do you think for a second that these measures will in some way stop would be terrorists? If so you are one of the fools that donít mind being searched at the airport
I can see the day(sooner than you think) when your and my freedom is limited to staying home and not watching anything you want on TV.

sailor582002 05-30-2002 07:26 AM

New nvdz
I understand your frustration, but I have to ask you two questions:
1. Are you an armed forces veteran?
2. Have you ever lived outside the U.S. or spent any length of time in a 3rd world country?

I tend to believe that what some people in this country think are their rights are actually not rights at all but are priviledges we as Americans enjoy and not available in most other countries. Think about it. I will qualify my statement by saying that I have spent a significent amount of my 58 years having either traveled or lived in most of the countries on this earth. I have seen what we have, I see what "they" have. I gladly pay my 30% wage tax and will stand in line for luggage inspection and will obey the 100 yard limit to our Naval Fleet. I also enjoy my ever present running water, electricity, stocked supermarkets, telephone, my car, my boat, available and resonably priced gasoline, freedom to live and worship where I please (which by the way are the only two "rights" mentioned here as stated in the Constitution), among many other privileges I so enjoy. A right as set forth in the Consitution is a guarantee from my government that I have certain things. There is nothing there that says I am guaranteed a car, boat, house, utilities, job, air travel, supermarkets, etc.
Join the rest of us in taking whatever precautions are inacted in an effort to protect this great country and our freedom.
Now, you want to talk about video cams on the street corners? That is a violation of my right to privacy and worth bitching about!!!!!!!!!

Sailormon6 05-30-2002 10:23 AM

New nvdz

Nobody wants to interfere with your freedom to sail past the fleet. They just want you and others to keep 100 or so yards away, to protect our sons and daughters who serve on those ships.

How would you suggest that the government can prevent people from carrying guns and knives and explosives onto commercial airliners without searching them? Do you want to fly on an airplane when passengers have been allowed to carry anything onboard that they wish?

If you and I don''t pay the costs of the necessary security, who will? Don''t say "the government," because that''s you and me. Don''t say the airlines, because if that is a part of their business expense, they have a right to recoup it by increasing their fares.

The people you should be mad at are the people who are responsible for committing acts of terrorism against us. Until they started their terrorism, all these security measures and all these expenses were unnecessary.

When you feel a need to blow off steam, choose the right target.

KenD 06-20-2002 08:29 AM

New nvdz
how about telling the people on the cole about your little inconvenences you might not get an answer you like.

TDanz87646 06-20-2002 10:59 AM

New nvdz
How about asking the Captain of the USS Cole, why he did''nt have a security boat circling the Cole in the most dangerous part of the world. Instead two sailors were looking at the weird craft coming up to their ship. No fire hoses, no guns ,no lookouts or security on deck to ward off suspected attackers. If you are in the Caribbean, note the precaution taken by the Royal Navy when their Frigate enters a harbor. First thing that happens is a` picket boat with armed personnel continuosly circles the vessel. This precaution was taken before the Cole incident. I know, I observerd them many times.Security begins at home!

928frenzy 06-20-2002 01:06 PM

New nvdz
Dear sailor 582002:
I agree with all you wrote, except the part about video cameras in public places. As a matter of fact, when in public - there''s no such thing as a "right to privacy". It''s an oxymoron. Think about it. ;^)

To the original poster: Regarding what the USCG can or cannot do - you have a right to challenge the 100 yard rule. However, I seriously doubt much consideration would be given to such a challenge, particularly since what occured to the U.S. Cole in Yemen, and what happened on 9/11. The fact that no one has yet attacked a U.S. Ship berthed in U.S waters does not mean it cannot occur. Do you want to wait till something happens before creating security rules? Ask the families of those that died in the World Trade Center buildings and at the Pentagon if they think stricter airline boarding rules were not needed.

Lastly, the President has said many times, "We are at war". Even though things appear normal, they are not, and WE need to be vigilant for our own security. Government law enforcement agencies cannot possibly see all and stop all terrorists. We all need to do our part to be additional eyes and ears in the fight against terrorism.

Sorry to use up so much bandwidth as a soapbox. ~ Happy sails to you ~ _/) ~

nomoss 06-20-2002 07:37 PM

New nvdz
Does this sound like the country you grew up in?

The Constitution are laws for the government to LIVE by!

You will not like this..But THIS IS your Gove at work.

If you give up rights for security, you have NO secrity or rights!


The Bush administration used the September 11 terrorist attack as an
opportunity to implement a "shadow government," based on old plans
prepared during the Cold War. More than 150 officials were initially
evacuated by helicopter to different locations in mountainous regions of
the eastern United States.

In late October the temporary arrangement was made permanent, officially
establishing the new regime. Since then Bush has added hand picked people
from top levels of the civil service who will carry out his commands
unquestioningly. Legal documents have been drafted to give these
officials the full powers of government in the event of a catastrophe.

The sinister and illegal "shadow government" consists entirely of
executive branch officials. No members of the legislative and judicial
branches of government are included in the secret plan. In television
interviews Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, confirmed that neither he
nor any other congressional leader had been consulted about the plan.
When asked whether this constituted a secret government, he replied, "I
don''t know. I don''t know what their role is, what their current authority
is, because we haven''t been informed."

This is a flagrant violation of the concept of "Separation of Powers" as
embodied in the Constitution. In the event that this "shadow government"
seizes power, it will function as a dictatorship exercising military and
police powers, without any legislative oversight or judicial control.

Public Law 101-647, signed by daddy Bush in November 1990, allows boy
George to declare a national emergency for almost any reason. If America
suffers a major earthquake, an economic crisis, or a terrorist attack,
FEMA is empowered to implement Executive Orders 10995 through 11005.

The power to issue Executive Orders allows the President of the United
States to unilaterally create law without congressional oversight and

Col. James Ammerman, 40 years an Army Chaplain, gave a talk at The
Granada Forum in southern California on March 20, 1997. He outlined the
details of Executive Orders 10995 through 11005 as follows:

Executive Order #10995: Authorizes seizure of all communication equipment
in the United States.

Executive Order #10997: Authorizes seizure of all electric power
companies, fuels, fuel sources, and minerals (public and private)

Executive Order #10998: Authorizes seizure of all food supplies, food
resources, all farms and all farm (public and private).

Executive Order #10999: Authorizes seizure of all means of
transportation- including personal cars, trucks, or any type of vehicle;
Total control over all highways, roads, seaports, and sea ways.
Executive Order #11000: Authorizes forced conscription of all Americans
for work duties under supervision of Federal agents. This section also
authorizes the splitting up of family units if deemed necessary by the
government agencies in charge.

Executive Order #11001: Authorizes seizure of all health, education, and
welfare facilities and their administrations (public and private).

Executive Order #11002: Empowers the Post Master General to register all
men, women, and children in the United States for government purposes.

Executive Order #11003: Authorizes seizure of all airports and all
aircraft, public, commercial, and private.

Executive Order #11004: Authorizes seizure of all housing and finance
authorities and permits government agents to establish forced relocation
sites. The government can declare any area of its choosing as "unsafe"
and force the entire area to be abandoned of all persons. Authorizes
establishment of new "relocation" communities; building new housing with
public funds.

Executive Order #11005: Authorizes seizure of all railroads, inland
waterways, and storage facilities, both public and private.

Executive Order #13010 (New): This Executive order is entitled Critical
Infrastructure Protection. It established a commission made up of members
from Federal government departments and agencies, which will be granted
dictatorial powers when an emergency is declared.
For a full compilation of all Executive Orders see; "Nasa Online
Directives Information System; Executive Orders"

73mensailed 06-20-2002 08:58 PM

New nvdz
Jeez, There are all kinds of forums for that to be voiced. Not here like this.
Plain and simple. Don''t like the 100 yd. limit, stay 200 yds away to spite the Navy. Don''t like the way the airports are run. Don''t fly. Don''t like the USA, leave.
But, if you do like to sail and you do like to fly places, then you''ll just have to go by the laws and /or rules. And if you don''t like the USA, enjoy the sailing or flying as you leave.

MaryBeth 06-20-2002 10:03 PM

New nvdz

Okay, we''re turning into a police state.

Even U.S. citizens (albeit gangbanging, thieving, murdering dope addicts who converted to a zealous religion in prison and returned from overseas with the idea of killing civilians) can be deemed civil right-less aggressors at the swipe of a pen.

Times change. Why don''t we leave it to the powerboaters to be pissed at the state of where they can go or no? As sailors, we are more or less allowed to go anywhere the wind takes us, or we choose to put the nose to, with relatively very little problems. So you can''t get a close-up shot of an artillery ship? So freakin'' what? Isn''t that what the Yankee stinkpots are supposed to get pissed about? Not sailors; don''t let your brethren down. That is not what sailing is about. The only time a sailor should be upset he can''t go somewhere is when his draft is too great for the channel. (Or when she runs into a cell that beats the crap out of her, breaks her ribs, leaving her to limp home steering through a jetty with 15 foot waves - only to try, try again.)

Please don''t give sailors a bad name by bitching about something the government or those you call the semi government, the United States Coast Guard (who work harder for less recognition than any body of the government you will ever come into contact with) may do or decree. If you get upset about sailing there, go elsewhere. Take her to Bermuda and the islands and see how customs treat you if you act the way you have stated here. They''ll tell you to turn your ass around, my man. But here, you are safe to bitch. Respect that safety, and what they are trying to do to preserve it.

And if you get too upset at me, please begin your response with a list of the veterans from your family.

Otherwise, let sailing remain what it is, sailing. Observe the rules and travel, for the most part, wherever you want to in the whole damned world, yes?

Or you could go to one of those widowed or orphaned by the 9-11 acts and tell them how upset you are that you can''t go closer to the boats in the harbor.

Denr 06-21-2002 05:01 AM

New nvdz
You go girl!

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