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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2008
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My 2 cents, since I'm guilty of solo sailing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
I've read that some solo sailors have turned on their radar guard ring set for what ever miles they feel comfortable with.
Also using a SeeMe radar detector to warn of approaching X-band radars and now AIS with collision risk warning alarm. Then the standard 20 minute timer. All ways of waking up to check the horizon that 20 minutes ago had nothing on it. Personally, alarms have never failed to wake me.
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Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
Ocean traffic three to four decades ago wasn't that bad. But with the increase in the global economy the intercontinental trade has increased the ocean traffic about ten fold.(my estimate)
Could be right, but the commercial traffic increase is on particular direct routes, that leaves a lot of empty ocean.
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Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
So does that bring on the next question: Are the days of Ocean solo racing and cruising nearing the end? Should the those boats be crewed by couples?
Not for a while I hope, but as nanny state folds its (tax) loving arms around us, I expect more anti-risk legislation.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2008
earl444 earl444 is offline
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first rule

I follow a very simple rule... don't hit another vessel! if you are sleeping, well, it's difficult to follow that rule, and if the other guy is also sleeping, you can see the potential for a really bad day
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2008
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Sailing a boat offshore is a bit like walking down railroad tracks. You are trespassing on the right of way of the railroad. While they don't necessarily mind, and are not going to kick you off, they do expect you get out of the way of the trains. When you sail a small boat offshore for pleasure you are trespassing in the domain of commerce, war, and piracy. You must accept this as reality, and accept the consequences.

sailaway21, no doubt the courts have found what ships engaged in commerce are required to do. What we have here is a situation not addressed by the Admiralty courts: recreation, pleasure. These things do not exists according to COLREGS, everyone at sea is subject to the same 'regulations.' In this sense when you are called to an admiralty court you are being treated as a commercial entity, engaged in commerce when the incident occurred. Of course common sense will usually prevail. "Mr. Supertanker driver, what do you mean you have a choice to run over the sailboat or hit the rocks a spill a million gallons of oil? " What damages can a sailboat actually do to a ship, at sea, offshore? Thats right, nothing. A bit like a train vs. a bicycle. This whole going to sea for pleasure thing is a foreign notion to the courts, the I.M.O., and to the maritime industry. While its great to think and ponder that you can somehow hold yourself to their standards putting across the ocean at 3-4 knots the reality is you can't. You don't have the power available to keep your radar, your VHF, AIS on 24 hours a day. You don't have the visibility a look out on a bridge wing has, and you don't have the speed to get out of the way if you needed to. If you posses a vessel that can, aside from ocean racers you likely won't be single handing anyway. Most ships are foreign flagged, have one man on the bridge who may or may not know what he is doing. For this reason attempting to follow the guidelines of rule 5 is in your best interest, as it is every vessels duty to do everything in their power to avoid a collision. If a ship doesn't see you, your lights, or your radar signature they have screwed up. Not its your turn to alert them with every means possible your position and try to get out of their way, if you can. It should also be noted that at least here on the west coast and Alaska commercial fisherman will often set their autopilot in a circle or cloverleaf pattern, or just lock their helm and forget it, sometimes sleeping the entire night like that. They know they are violating rule 5, but they don't really care. This is the reality. Their are unmanned fishing boats, freighters with hardly a soul on deck, and then there is the lowly singlehander...

About Boasun's comments about not waking up to a radar proximity alarm, or AIS. Most single handers, including myself sleep very, very lightly. This is because (if they have sense about them) even their subconscious knows it is in their best interest to observe every change in their environment. Human perception is geared towards recognizing change, and your body will adapt very well to life at sea as a singlehander. You can hear, feel, smell, and dare I say 'sense' the proximity of other vessels. If you do not posses these traits it probably isn't a good idea to single hand long distances, while at the same time you can't let your guard down. Be on the defensive too. Use DSC 'all ships' on your VHF. It sets off an alarm on their bridge which they will hear, that at least lets them know to look for you.

My personal policy regarding sleep singlehanded involves some relative distances. 24 hours from land = no sleeping no matter what. 48 hours from land = sleeping in cockpit with radar on 5 min proximity sweeps and a 15 min egg timer. Further out, single handers should consciously avoid shipping lanes and known fishing areas. Eventually the 15 minute thing stops working and you need a real sleep. This is, as mentioned before a calculated risk, but in any event this sleep period should look nothing like normal sleep on land. Unless you are becalmed the boat and the ocean will prohibit any long periods anyway. But it doesn't really matter. If a freighter doesn't see you, and is on a direct collision course even the 15 minute rule is enough to get you killed. I know it has been discussed at length here before, but this is good exercise. Worst case, approximate reciprocal collision courses bring the two vessels together at 1/2 Nmi per minute. This doesn't give you much time. So you take your risks.. that is what life is about. I don't worship some set of regulations... Don't need to. If it isn't common sense then you shouldn't go to sea. For that matter you probably shouldn't drive either.. but thats a different website

Last edited by sailboy21 : 05-17-2008 at 11:57 AM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2008
sailaway21 sailaway21 is offline
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I find sailboy's seamanship practises eminently sensible.

His understanding of admiralty seems confused though. While the purpose of admiralty is to afix causation and ultimately monetary compensation for those actions it does not differentiate between commercial and recreational vessels.

The IMO has had ample opportunity to do so and has unfailingly failed to make any accomodation. The only possible interpretation is that we are expected to operate under the same strictures.

I'd encourage everyone to be as safe as possible and to solo sail in safer areas with the strong consideration of ample crewing to conduct trans-oceanic passages with a proper lookout. As sailboy says, the small sailboat is most likely to pay the price. That alone should be enough to give pause to those conducting some of the hare-brained passages being discussed commonly today. That it does not, this thread has validity.

And, btw, the optimum position for the lookout on the merchant ship, or virtually any vessel, is as far forward and as low as possible on the vessel, ie...the bows. The bridge wing is only superior in that it protects the lookout in weather where the bows are unsafe.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailaway21 View Post
....
And, btw, the optimum position for the lookout on the merchant ship, or virtually any vessel, is as far forward and as low as possible on the vessel, ie...the bows. The bridge wing is only superior in that it protects the lookout in weather where the bows are unsafe.
... and here I thought that the optimum position was inside the cosy wheelhouse with a warm cup of coffee and the helmsman to chat with to while away the night hours!!

I cannot recall ever having seen anyone other than curious passengers maintaining a lookout on the bow, bridge wing or anywhere else on a merchant ship until about 30 seconds before docking (and then only in nice weather, of course), and it wouldn't surprise me if the OH&S people wouldn't have something to say about that either!

After all, this is the 21st century! Keep watch at anything other than the radar and chartplotter/AIS?? What a horrible thought!!...
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2008
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Boasun,

To try to respond to your last question, I don't think we (meaning "the people", their governments, or the interntional treaties (like IMO) into which they enter), should prohibit singlehanded offshore sailing, which seems like one of those liberties which, though hazardous at times, is one of those things that keeps life interesting rather than gray and boring.

But, as has been intelligently and thoroughly discussed above, you violate Rule 5, especially intentionally, at your own risk. Some find this a risk worth taking, and many of them, like Sailboy and others, do all they can to compensate and lessen the risk, but it can't be eliminated.

It's the nature of life. There are risks, and rewards. Solos find the rewards outweigh the risks. So let them. But don't be too hard on the ship who, during change-of-watch in midocean, doesn't pick up a poor-quality radar target, or weak or extinguished lights, in time.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2008
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Shh! This is why I opened this discussion. Should there be a day signal? Special light? for the single hander?
There are a wide opinions on this and the inadvertent violations of the rules are being taken into the decision (not lightly) of single handing a boat off shore. Those that are light sleepers and the paranoia of being run down by a ship will make most of us very light sleepers. but I have seen what a freighter can do to a 165' offshore supply vessel and morned the lost of life of those vessel's crews. And all of those collisions were due to a bad decision by someone on either or both vessels. Sh*t happens. But 99+% of the shingle handers have sailed safely around the world and across the big ponds. And may they always stay safe.
But each does know his/her capacity in staying awake and waking when an alarm goes off. A special breed. These will be the people who will explore deep space once we have that capability of going out there. (My Opinion)
Then again we should push for something beside electronics to help in keeping us safe when crossing the shipping lanes of this world.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2008
sailaway21 sailaway21 is offline
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Boasun,
I'm not sure we want a special light or day signal that indicates the operator of a vessel may be sleeping! While it might be very valuable information to the approaching vessel, it is hard to see how it does not but encourage the solo sailor to hang out the do not disturb sign. It would seem to grant license not to keep watch or, worse, tranfer the whole obligation of keeping lookout to the other vessel.

Constrained and restricted all communicate valuable information to the other vessel but do not relieve the displaying vessel of having a navigation watch nor a lookout. I do not see what other purpose such a light/shape would have other than to allow the solo sailor a rationale to sleep.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2008
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I agree. The correct response is: "No Sr. Chief I wasn't sleeping, you must have been mistaken. My eyes were open." Same thing for solo sailors. You don't get to sleep. You are on watch 24x7. Period. Or.. just carry a couple miles of 3 strand with small mushroom anchor on the end of it. When you feel like sleeping toss it over, make sure it finds the bottom. Any movement was the anchors fault.. or something like that.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2008
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What are the chances of two boats with sleeping single handers hitting each other out in the middle of nowhere? Presumably a single handed sailer is not taking a nap in the middle of a channel. If you come across another boat in your 30 foot whatever, and that boat is a large container ship that saw you on radar 20 miles away, I'm betting they had plenty of time to see you, figure out that you're sleeping, sneak up on you without hitting you, and get as close as they want so they can blast their horn and scare the crap out of you and laugh about it after.
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