Solo Sailing & Lights displayed

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by eMKay

What are the chances of two boats with sleeping single handers hitting each other out in the middle of nowhere?

It's not the other single-handers I'd be worried about. And the ships often don't see you on their radar, especially the fishing/workboats that are short-handed and not always keeping the best watch while handling lines. See, e.g.

Transatlantic Test

Martinus got lucky on that one.....

[Idiens]

The big worry is any stand-on vessel approaching that is expecting the sleeping single hander to give way. Not being on watch means that the autopilot is going to barge right on in. Big stuff and fishermen are likely not to (be able) to apply adequate last minute action. Hence displaying "not under command" signals would (hopefully) fool the no-longer stand-on vessel to take avoiding action (assuming etc.,) However, they would likely try the VHF first, which could serve as an alarm.

I'm not sure a sailing vessel can logically justify having its sails up and claim "not under command".

[sailingdog]

If it is hove-to and under sail, it would be more reasonable to claim NUC, but under full sail, it's a bit harder to justify.

[nolatom]

The definition of "NUC" is "through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these rules and therefore is unable to keep out of the way of another vessel"

Sleeping thirty or forty percent of the time every day isn't an "exceptional circumstance", it's just something a singlehander routinely has to do.

I think what Boasun was originally asking (or maybe just stirring the pot, and it's been interesting) was whether a new signal, meaning more or less "I'm underway and able to maneuver but am not going to, because I'm not keeping any visual lookout right now, thank you very much", would be a good idea. It might be, but it'll never happen, because the rule makers won't condone a signal that says, "I'm violating the lookout rule" any more than they would condone one that signified, say, "I know you're the stand-on vessel, but I don't feel like altering course or speed for you, just letting you know, have a nice day". If I'm the stand-on vessel, that would be *really* useful information, but there will never be such a signal.

Also singlehanders tend to try to sleep more by day and be on watch at night, so the "new signal" would have to be a day shape too, and on small sailboats, with a jib up, it just ain't going to be seen, or seen in time.

Also, re the comment about a container ship intentionally close-shaving a sailboat, seen from 20 miles out, just to scare them awake and get a chuckle, please tell me you were joking...

[Idiens]

Just to add a variation. AIS might be new opportunity to signal NUC.

Although signalling NUC may be unjustified by sleep, the approaching ship does not know that. Suppose the yacht is truly in a fix, trying to unjam a rudder, for example. Then NUC is justified and the approaching ship should give way.

[sailboy21]

I like this thread.. fleshing out all the preconceptions, theories, ideas, and practices we all have developed but probably don't normally talk about...

So... Idiens, curious under what conditions a sleeping single hander would not be the stand-on vessel. Sleeping under power? kinda defeats the purpose of sailing offshore. Other vessels constrained by draft??? I hope not! Any vessels such as deep sea drilling rig, trawlers, and the like will be going slower than you, so seems like there would be ample time for them to 'wake you lazy butt up' with a good horn blast or VHF call. Its a big ocean, even though it is getting smaller I like the odds out there better than the sidewalk in front of my house.

Does anyone remember what team/boat it was in one of the last around the world races that almost got run down by a freighter? As I recall they hailed the freighter but it didn't answer forcing them to eventually jibe (not an easy thing to do for them) to get out of its way. Happened somewhere off the coast of Africa near the start of the race...

[Idiens]

I gave up the idea that power gives way to sail a long time ago. I've never met a fishing boat that would give way - they fly their fishing signals permanently, even when moored in port. Most big stuff has got used to playing chicken, as usually yachts give way. Their MARPA may predict a close pass, but I don't want to be nearer than a nm with a collision course.

[nolatom]

Ultimately, it's a question of what the "awake" vessel (meaning a ship or offshore supply or tug)sees and how she reacts. Whether sleeping sailor is showing red over green masthead, or red over red, or some new signal, basically sail still has right of way over power, so awake or asleep, that solo sailor is still privileged. So whichever lights you show, the ship is supposed to see them, gauge if it will be a close-quarters situation and take evasive action if so, and sailboat should hold course and speed, at least up until the "uh-oh, he's not reacting" point.

That's the perfect world. But the world out there isn't perfect. Changing signals from "privileged" to "privileged" may not change anything much.

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by Idiens

Just to add a variation. AIS might be new opportunity to signal NUC.

Idiens,

I wouldn't count on it. Some bridge crew don't even know where their AIS system is!! Often times it's tucked away in a closet somewhere. There is no requirement to check or monitor the incoming data through the receiver -- the only requirement is that they broadcast the necessary AIS data.

So don't expect them to see your signal. On the other hand, you CAN benefit from the info they are broadcasting.

[Boasun]

You are talking about a power driven vessel... But the fishing vessels, Vessels contrained by draft, Vessels restricted in their ability to Maneuver and NUC vessels have the right away over the sailing vessel. And to me a 80,000 ton vessel like an 800 pound gorilla has the right away on open seas. No way am I going to demand my right away and end up Dead Right.