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  #21  
Old 05-27-2008
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Uhh......

Because the best part of sailing, for me, is going fast upwind and being able to tack on a 5-degree header and cash in on it in a few seconds, and not take all afternoon to come about?

Because if I ever (God forbid) get rolled way offshore, I'd like to be on a hull that at least wants to go back to vertical, either with or without mast still in place, rather than stay turtled at 180?

Whether I can find a slip is much farther down the list.

Sorry to appear chippy about this, it's my opinion only, and is worth exactly what you paid for it...

Your mileage, of course, may vary.....;-)

Last edited by nolatom; 05-27-2008 at 06:09 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-27-2008
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I would buy a Catamaran as our next boat if my wife claimed she was "hooked on cats" - especially since it was her fear of heeling that led to the sale of our mono-hull.

My fear with cats though, is the hobby horsing and ominous threat of pitch poling in heavy weather. Sure, they tell you to reef and reduce sail at the onset with these flip-easy hulls - but at least with a mono, chances are we'll right ourselves after a knock-down event.
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueBlue View Post
I would buy a Catamaran as our next boat if my wife claimed she was "hooked on cats" - especially since it was her fear of heeling that led to the sale of our mono-hull.

My fear with cats though, is the hobby horsing and ominous threat of pitch poling in heavy weather. Sure, they tell you to reef and reduce sail at the onset with these flip-easy hulls - but at least with a mono, chances are we'll right ourselves after a knock-down event.
All great points..... but how many actual "pitchpoles" and "flips" have left a cruising cat (not a beachcat or a racer) turtled, worldwide?

Todd H
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Todd Hubbell
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To quote Mark Twain:
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubajeep View Post
All great points..... but how many actual "pitchpoles" and "flips" have left a cruising cat (not a beachcat or a racer) turtled, worldwide?

Todd H
(sounds of a pull cord chugging up a rant engine)..


Far, far fewer than mono hulls which have broached, hit something etc. and sank.
I'd rather cling to, and still be able to live inside, my overturned Gemini (3 out of 1000 built over 25 years, all due to admitted Charter operator errors and stupidity, and all salvaged and still sailing) - than gargle saltwater following my boat down. No Gemini or other production cruising cat has ever reported a pitchpole, that's a racing error which equates to stupid people doing stupid things in my book.

If Catamaran sailors are folks that can't believe the weebul won't fall down then Monohull sailors are folks that cling to outmoded bias even in the face of overwhelming statistics. In the '79 Fastnet not one Catamaran had a problem; the entire reason for the Fastnet disaster Committee Report on Safety from Capsizing was monohull derived - yet monohullers continue to say that catamarans are unsafe.

Frigging hogwash in the face of facts.

Fact is my boat, and most catamarans, will not and can not sink. A small yacht is far more likely to be holed than turtled.
I have pictures of a Gemini that came down on a piling after a tropical storm. It's floating on it waterline with a 8 inch piling going through the hull vertically.


Tiny little Gemini's (33.5 ft, 14 ft beam) have crossed the Atlantic in 35+kts and 35kt seas, comfortable, dry and not pitchpoling. Imagine what a 40 ft can do.


(rant done).


We've had this discussion so many times in my paltry 9 months on this board I really should just start cutting and pasting in the last one....
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Old 05-28-2008
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If a catamaran works for you -- by all means.

When I get aboard they feel listless to me -- I guess I'm acclimated to healing and expect it when I'm sailing. There's also a somewhat choppier feel to the motion -- makes some people very nauseated, others are fine with it. But if that's what my wife/family wanted for a Caribbean island cruise, then I'd get it.

If I was going to drop that much money on a Catamaran, I would make sure to look at all the offerings from Chris White Designs before investing in the ex-charter boats.
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Old 05-28-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scubajeep View Post
All great points..... but how many actual "pitchpoles" and "flips" have left a cruising cat (not a beachcat or a racer) turtled, worldwide?

Todd H
Not to turn this into a mono vs cat discussion - again, but the easiest way that I know of to find out the relative safety of a cruising cat vs mono is to check with the bean counters. Insurance costs are comparable between cruising cats and monos, so loss experience is comparable - flip over vs sink. So don't let the "you're gonna die if you buy a cat" crowd make you think that you are any safer in a mono. The numbers don't support it. Some people like to feel good because their boat will self right, some people like to feel good because their boat is almost impossible to flip.

Besides, I'll bet Giu's fat ass boat (no disrespect, it's also a kick ass boat) wouldn't be in any big hurry to come back up.
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  #27  
Old 05-28-2008
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Besides, I'll bet Giu's fat ass boat (no disrespect, it's also a kick ass boat) wouldn't be in any big hurry to come back up.
I don't think it would take very long -- if he ever got that far over. He has a 10+ foot draft with all the ballast out at the tip. Serious righting moment there!

Plus, his is a purpose-built coastal racer-cruiser. He never intended his design for long off-shore passages to distant shores, where it might get caught in conditions that could induce a roll. He'll be snugged up in harbor sampling the local port long before conditions ever deteriorate that much!
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  #28  
Old 05-28-2008
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  #29  
Old 05-28-2008
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One thing... most of the fatalities in boating are related to MOB incidents. For some reason, I think a boat that is 18' wide and 28' LOA and only heels 10-15 degrees is probably harder to fall off of than a 9' wide 30' LOA boat that is heeling 40 degrees...

In Chris White's book, The Cruising Multihull, he points out that the number of fatalities per capita for multihulls is far lower than it is for monohulls... while the statistics are a bit dated at this point, I doubt that modern statistics are much different.

JRP-

I would hesitate to call Gui's boat a COASTAL racer/cruiser. It is designed to compete in offshore races as well as coastal ones AFAIK.
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Old 05-28-2008
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I'm not arguing that multi-hulls are less safe then monos, and would embrace this choice in a heartbeat, if this was my wife's desire. I simply need more convincing that multi-hulls have less of a risk of pitch-poling, compared to the risk of mono-hulls sinking due to a knockdown, both in similar heavy weather conditions and with equal amounts of sail.

I've heard the so-called "per-capita" statistics reporting total numbers of each type - but AFAIK, that's not a fair comparison - due to the fact that proportionally, there are many more monos than multis on this blue planet.
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