Beneteau loses rudder..boat sinks - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 51 Old 06-02-2008
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my guess it was 7 gpm more than everything they could possibly do
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post #22 of 51 Old 06-02-2008 Thread Starter
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Dr. B...the coast guard put large dewatering pumps on board and even they couldn't keep the boat afloat under tow in the conditions. I wouldn't blame the capt/crew on this one as it must have been a BIG rip in the post area.

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post #23 of 51 Old 06-02-2008
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Originally Posted by DrB View Post
The displacement on the boat is about 15,500 lbs and it has a keel about 5500 lbs, 10,000 lbs is displaced water weight (roughly). Let say it takes 3500 of additional weight to sink her, that is roughly 400 gallons of sea water, 400/60 is a little under 7 gallons a minute, which is not that big of a hole, I can't see how that could not be partially plugged to reduce the water flow. What happend to the bilge pumps. Are not most bilge pumps set up to handle much more than 7 gallons a minute?

I don't see how this could happen with a competent owner/caption on board.

DrB
A lot of the times, a rudder post is not completely accessible from inside with the boat banging and all that..

Just to give you an example, last weekend I diod some work on Sailortjk's rudder quadrant, and tried doing it while at anchor in a waveless area..impossible..I'd get sea sick in 5 minutes..

Instead I had to do it later while in the marina, and was working thru a hole 1 foot wide, on my back..

That could have been the issue...we don't know..

Has nothing to do with the captain, buty with the circunstances...seas, space available, where the crack was etc...

we don't know...simple as that...
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post #24 of 51 Old 06-02-2008
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DrB-

Most bilge pumps are rated in GPH (GALLONS PER HOUR) not GPM, and are rate for ZERO LIFT... Their actual effective capacity is much lower, especially if you have four or five feet of lift, as might be the case in a 40' monohull sailboat.

A big electric bilge pump, like the Rule 1500, which is about what is found on most boats, only does 25 GPM, at zero head. If you increase the head to five feet, the actual output may only be 10 GPM. Say the rudder stock on the 40' beneteau is 3" in diameter. Say the rudder stock opening is two feet below the waterline, so we have a 3" diameter hole with a 2' depth. That would allow about 84 GPM in the boat. Q (in GPM) = 20 * D (diameter of hole in inches) * Sqrt (H) (depth of hole in feet). Q = 20 * 3 * 1.4.

Given no bilge pumps, a 3" diameter hole two feet below the surface would allow in over 400 Gallons of water in just five minutes.

Let's be optimistic, and say the rudder stock is only 2" in diameter. Q = 40 * 1.4 = 56 GPM... so it would only take eight minutes to allow 400 Gallons of water aboard. With a Rule 1500 running full tilt at zero head, you'd still be taking on 31 gallons per minute... and in less than 15 minutes, you'd have over 400 gallons of water aboard.

Again, why do they make it so that the loss of a rudder can sink a boat???

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post #25 of 51 Old 06-02-2008
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If the leak is in an inaccessible place, or in an initially accessible place that floods rapidly and drives you out of there, then it will be very difficult indeed to save the ship.

Another lesson I read about a long time back was that if you are being towed in a big sea, BUOY THE TOW LINE!!!! Use your fenders if need be.
One sailboat I read of was being towed and over-ran her tow line in a big sea, the warp went round the rudder, tightened with a big tug, and tore off the rudder, and with it a big hole opened up. They could not stop the leak and they lost her.
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post #26 of 51 Old 06-02-2008
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The rudder stock on my boat is in a separate compartment, and even if it floods, it won't fill the rest of the boat with water. I don't know why monohulls don't do this...especially when they have a big weight wanting to drag them down under the sea...
The rudder stock on my old pearson 28 travels through a glassed in compartment/tube that runs from the hull to the deck. Hopefully when the rudder "snaps off" I'll just be blowin in the wind and not sinking to the bottom.
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post #27 of 51 Old 06-02-2008
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In 7 - 9 foot seas it would not be easy to plug a hole (whatever the cause) with water sloshing around in the bilge. Water temps are still quite cold near LI as well.
It is too easy to ask how and why without having actually being there. This is just another reminder of why we all need to be ever vigilant about our boats systems, especially in a blue water, ocean environment. There are no travel lifts nearby anywhere.
Sad story, sunken boat but that fact is that nobody drowned or died. It sounds like they did what they could and moved on.
It is pretty deep 15 miles south of Shinnecock so the only danger is to draggers (haul seine fishing boats) that might catch the mast or hull.
I guess why their nickname is 'Bendytoe'! I just covered 400+ nm on a 51' Benne from Tortola to Provo and it performed marvelously. The owner/captain was on board and knows his boat like he knows himself.
Ship happens.

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post #28 of 51 Old 06-03-2008
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You realize of course I'm going to scream like a girl the first time the wind hits

(no offense intended to the ladies of sailnet, most of whom can outsail me).
To who ever the nameless a hole who gave me negative rep with the comment 'no offence taken' (spelling error yours not mine) for the above:

Sorry my friend you didn't have enough rep to actually post any negative points.
Try getting some rep before you hurt others for posting what was so obviously a joke.
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post #29 of 51 Old 06-04-2008
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Wow! and I thought Benys were offshore capable...
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post #30 of 51 Old 06-04-2008
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Here we go...

this week's chosen for the Sailnet bashathon is Beneteau....

I rather sail a new Beneteau (any model) today than an old POS Valiant from 1978.....
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