Legal recourse on false information? - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of Old 06-26-2008
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I feel for you that this has happened, and speaking as an attorney, I have some general advice for you:

DON'T TAKE LEGAL ADVICE FROM ANYONE OVER THE INTERNET.

If you want to pursue trying to get money out of the PO, hire a lawyer. In the meantime, I think those that have given you some ideas here about how to proceed with fixing what you have are right on the mark.

Last edited by mstern; 06-26-2008 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Hit the wrong button too soon.
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post #22 of Old 06-26-2008
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My personal experiences with the Atomic Four have been very poor and doing a valve on one is no trivial matter since it is a flat head four.

You can probably find a running A4 "take out" locally, in this area lots of marine shops seem to have them sitting around. Moyer Marine on the Maryland eastern shore will sell you a rebuilt one for nearly the price of a diesel. But since I have s suspicion that you are on a tight budget, dropping in another A4 is probably the best bet. The engine itself really isn't that big, I helped a friend permanently remove one from his boat and we used the boom to raise it out of the cabin, three guys moved it to the dock and into a wheel barrel. When I removed mine from my boat the local yard guy chained it to the boat lift and raised it out of the cabin for me.

I agree with the other guys on here, get yourself sailing and rectify the bad deal later. No point in missing out on a beautiful sailing season.

~Dan
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post #23 of Old 06-26-2008
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Try contacting Joe Demers at Sound Marine Diesel via email at JEDSail@Mindspring.com By telephone or fax at (860) 666-2184 Sound Marine Diesel LLC contact

He comes highly recommended and works the CT side of the sound. If you can get him to come by and take a look at it--at least you'll get an honest estimate you can rely on.
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post #24 of Old 06-27-2008
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Some thoughts on your situation and what I've read in this thread...
  1. I am not a lawyer
  2. Nor am I a mechanic--marine or otherwise. However, in a past life I street raced and spent some time wrenching on engines not dissimilar to the A4, so, unlike law, I feel at least marginally qualified to talk about certain engine issues .
  3. Legal advice over the 'net: What mstern said.
  4. Suing in small claims court: You may win, but you may never collect. That isn't to say you shouldn't do it, just don't let awaiting the payoff put your life on hold.
  5. Getting action via eBay or PayPal: Good luck. I'd go for it, but don't get your hopes too high.
  6. The cylinders fill with water when cranked: I hope you realize that if you crank a raw water cooled marine engine long enough without it starting, you will get water in the cylinders, crankcase, etc. This can destroy the engine if not addressed. This is why, if our engine does not start w/in seconds, I go below and shut off the raw water intake seacock before continuing cranking.
  7. "The head torques to spec" doesn't mean anything at all. The head could be in pieces and you could get it to "torque to spec."
  8. If the block is cracked, the only repair possible is a new block.
  9. Ditto the head. But if you re-tapped (chased, more likely) the head bolt holes (why?) and replaced the head gaskets, one could reasonably assume you had had the head off. Did you not inspect it at the time?
  10. Have you done a compression check? Compression gauges are inexpensive, the test is easy, and it might tell you something you don't already know.
  11. In fact: If you know the head "torques to spec," you must know the spec. If you know the spec, you must've gotten it from somewhere. That somewhere is most likely the Moyer Marine Universal Atomic 4 Service and Overhaul Manual. That should tell you everything you need to know about troubleshooting, servicing and overhauling your A4. There are also videos in VHS and DVD available from Moyer.
  12. There are a lot of knowledgeable, friendly people here on Sailnet, but I think you'd be better-served regarding A4 issues over on the Moyer Marine forums.

Good Luck,
Jim
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post #25 of Old 06-27-2008
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Move right now to get your money back if you want it.

Once the Pay Pall/Credit Card time limit is up you are beat.

Otherwise, call a lawyer, fix the motor and get on with your summer. You are in New England, winter starts again in six weeks don't waste what time you have.
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post #26 of Old 06-27-2008
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If all else fails.......post his name, address, ph. no. and a pic of him and his new boat if it's available......nothing like a bad rep to ruin a crooks day.

Poverty motivates me in ways prosperity never could.
(stolen from Eddie Jones)
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post #27 of Old 06-27-2008
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"get on with your summer. You are in New England, winter starts again in six weeks "
Aw, come on now, that's just not so. Next week marks the start of eigth weeks of windless dangerous heat and humidity in LI sound when "ghosting" is about as good as it gets. Then there's a couple of bea-u-tiful months to go before winter comes, if it comes at all. Hasn't shown up every year, lately.
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post #28 of Old 06-27-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstern View Post
I feel for you that this has happened, and speaking as an attorney, I have some general advice for you:

DON'T TAKE LEGAL ADVICE FROM ANYONE OVER THE INTERNET.

If you want to pursue trying to get money out of the PO, hire a lawyer. In the meantime, I think those that have given you some ideas here about how to proceed with fixing what you have are right on the mark.

This creates somewhat of a paradox. Should that prohibition include the above advise?

Anyway, seems like a pretty good guideline.

Having said that, here's my advise.

If you have the energy and the inclination, suing someone in small claims court can sometimes be a very interesting experience.

If, as you say, someone heard the seller tell you that the engine was running and is willing to testify to that effect, and the fact that the engine be running was a condition agreed upon and that can be proved, sounds like you have a pretty good case.
Depending on how well you can document everything and what kind of mood the judge is in that morning, you could even win your case.
Then of course you will have to collect.

What I have learned, painfully, is that anyone who is willing to rip you off in the first place is not a sure bet to pay you, even when told to by a judge.
If "the principal of the thing" is important enough, then go for it. Who knows.

I had another thought. doesn't someone make a nice little diesel outboard? Maybe you could run it from the existing tanks.
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post #29 of Old 06-27-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
What did you pay for this boat?
My personal suspicion is that if BS were to tell us what he paid for the Tartan 30, we'd all say, what the hell do you expect for so little money? As I've said before.."The best that you can hope for in buying a boat is to actually get what you pay for." and I bet this is an object case.

Certified...in several regards...
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post #30 of Old 06-27-2008
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Another cheap fraudster.
The worls abounds with them.
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