Could you do COB recovery by yourself? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-14-2008
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,818
Thanks: 206
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Could you do COB recovery by yourself?

How prepared are you for a COB (crew over board) scenario.
We had a couple of hyper boys 13 and 14 years old on a Catalina 30 yesterday. They were wearing PFDís but it was their first time on a boat and between playing, food and hyperactivity I consider myself lucky that one of them didnít go over board during our 6 hour sail. We have a ďLife SlingĒ, came with boat never opened by us. Wind was about 15 knots about one foot seas. We had a great sail but it got me thinking about COB.
I looked up the subject in the Annapolis book and frankly it doesnít look easy.
If someone goes overboard a decent size boat I think a dislocated shoulder or cracked rib is a very likely possibility. It is a pretty good fall and you will likely be trying to hang on with one hand and have an arm wrenched and be banged against the boat.
A one foot chop and 10 knots could easily be a 4 foot chop and 25 knots which makes the C30 slap around sickenly.
Iím 57 reasonably strong but still out of shape and wear a PFD all the time. Not one of those blow up doll ones either. I work on computers for a living and anything that requires directions I distrust. My standard PFD comes with pockets which my inner geek likes anyway.
The captain is a rock climber, competitive cycler and of course an excellent swimmer. He will not wear a PFD.
I can sail the boat but still the idea of being in 4 foot chop and 25 knots of wind and Captain A overboard and I have to figure out how to get him on-board without his help is frankly terrifying.
Iíve got about 20 things to do at once. All the directions in all the books assume you have a crew of about 20. Someone to push the button on the GPS. Someone to point. Someone to handle sheets etc, etc.
Lets assume I get the boat somewhere near Captain A. How do I get a harness on him if he is non-responsive? If I get the harness on him how do I get him on board?
If Iím working off the swam ladder and the stern of the boat is going up and down even a very modest three feet what are my chances.
The main halyard winch is on the mast. I drop the sail, we have no dutchman so the sail is all over the deck. I try to get the line on the halyard to the harness I magically got installed previously. Now I have to haul from the center of the boat?
Even if the best of conditions at the dock this looks like a half-hour project.
I know a lot of you guys go out all the time with your wife or GF. How many of you are confident your SO could get you aboard. The way I understand it just a few minutes can exhaust someone that is not even hurt so they canít help themselves.
I have a very strong suspicion that most sailors could not single-handed get a non-responsive crew member back on board could you? How do you know?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-14-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
I'd highly recommend you try out the Lifesling. It is one of the best tools you can have for recovering a COB. I'm pretty sure that I can recover a COB, since my boat has very little freeboard, and I've had some practice doing it on boats with more freeboard. The boat also is 18' wide, with a foot-high bulwark on the outboard edge of each ama... yes, it is a trimaran. The freeboard is probably only 2' or so. The higher the freeboard, the more difficult things get.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.

Last edited by sailingdog; 07-14-2008 at 09:10 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-14-2008
Stillraining's Avatar
Handsome devil
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LaConner,Washington
Posts: 3,477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough
David:

Its a good question and something you/we all should practice...I plan on throwing a 18" Float out and practice the MOB maneuvers with my crew soon..I also think you should make your concern knowen to your skipper and have him show you how its done a few times till your not worried about it any more...My wife is concerned about this too so thats why we are going to practice it untill all 5 of us can do it confidently..what if both mom and dad fell over board...we all need to know how to do it.

Hay its some fast thinking / decition making and control of the boat... sounds like a grand day on the water to me...your own privet buoy race..

My boat is also equipped with a swim/boarding platform which makes for easier retrieval.

Another thought...I totally agree with the getting hurt trying to save yourself scenario....If you had zero concern of crews ability to pick you up and load you ...you might be better off just diving in, in thoes situations..much like a logger in a log rolling competition..straddling the log is not the proper fall..

Last thought...This is a water sport, not unlike a lot of others where your separated from your conveyance means at times...If we dont have the skills to deal with that we should not be on the water..Storm conditions will change everything however, and its some thing to consider as an inherent danger of this sport we pursue..I want my crew to be as comfortable comming off the deck of our sail boat as they are comming off a water ski or tube @ 30 mph..Hopefully not quite as often..
Attached Thumbnails
Could you do COB recovery by yourself?-too-much-fun.jpg  

Last edited by Stillraining; 07-14-2008 at 10:30 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-14-2008
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,818
Thanks: 206
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
davidpm is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
David:
I also think you should make your concern knowen to your skipper and have him show you how its done a few times till your not worried about it any more
This is something to we have to work out together, his experience with this is about the same as mine. I'm sure he is stronger but I'm heavier so its a problem both ways.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 07-14-2008
Stillraining's Avatar
Handsome devil
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LaConner,Washington
Posts: 3,477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough
I understand...Maybe some sort of boarding ladder off the stern would help immensely

I added a picture and comment to my last post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-14-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
David:

Its a good question and something you/we all should practice...I plan on throwing a 18" Float out and practice the MOB maneuvers with my crew soon..I also think you should make your concern knowen to your skipper and have him show you how its done a few times till your not worried about it any more...My wife is concerned about this too so thats why we are going to practice it untill all 5 of us can do it confidently..what if both mom and dad fell over board...we all need to know how to do it.
IMHO, a 18" float really doesn't give you a proper MOB drill, since a float will generally drift far more differently than an MOB would. My friend would use a larger float with a bucket attached... the bucket prevents it from drifting with the wind and simulating the drift of a person in the water.

Quote:
Hay its some fast thinking / decition making and control of the boat... sounds like a grand day on the water to me...your own privet buoy race..

My boat is also equipped with a swim/boarding platform which makes for easier retrieval.
In heavier seas, a swim platform can be lethal due to the movement of the transom in heavier conditions. The stern of the boat can possibly come down on the MOB during the retrieval process. An amidships retrieval is one of the only safe choices in heavy weather.

Quote:
Another thought...I totally agree with the getting hurt trying to save yourself scenario....If you had zero concern of crews ability to pick you up and load you ...you might be better off just diving in, in thoes situations..much like a logger in a log rolling competition..straddling the log is not the proper fall..

Last thought...This is a water sport, not unlike a lot of others where your separated from your conveyance means at times...If we dont have the skills to deal with that we should not be on the water..Storm conditions will change everything however, and its some thing to consider as an inherent danger of this sport we pursue..I want my crew to be as comfortable comming off the deck of our sail boat as they are comming off a water ski or tube @ 30 mph..Hopefully not quite as often..
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

óCpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-14-2008
davidpm's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 3,818
Thanks: 206
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 8
davidpm is on a distinguished road
So you are by yourself. Your crew-mate is in the water unable to help. You do not have a swim platform nor ama. You have a freeboad of about 30" which I guess is about what most 27 to 40 foot boats have. About the only way I can think of to get a harness on the COB is to tie a line to yourself and swim the harness and 2ed line to the COB. Then fight your way back to the boat. Hope you remembered to drop the boarding ladder. Climb back on, haul the COB to the boat. Disconnect the halyard from the main sail. Attach a 4 to 1 tackle to the halyard (which we do not have). Attempt to haul the COB with the tackle while pushing him out to clear the lifelines and not smash his head against the side of the boat. All the while trying to stand up while the main is thrashing about not tied down on a deck pitching up and down three or four feet. Even once on board I would have to haul him over the cabin top, over the traveler and into the cockpit while trying to do CPR.
This does not seem easy nor fast. And notice that I've assumed I found time to mark the GPS which the captain has down at the nav station and called for assistance on the radio and turned the boat around and dropped both sails all the while steering in 360 degrees and not loosing site of him.

After doing all this I still have to sail home and monitor the radio for help.
"I DON'T THINK SO"

Some safety researcher suggested that padded dashes on cars off no protection but looked comfortable. He recommended barbed wire dash. In a major crash the difference in injury would be negligible the the driving behavior may be enhanced.
I'm thinking a harpoon and man sized gaff for hardcore COB equipment.
That will keep the crew focused on staying on the boat.

A COB that can help with their rescue, put on the harnes, protect their head from bashing on the side of the boat etc. OK maybe. Unconscience it better be dead calm or you have two people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 07-14-2008
Stillraining's Avatar
Handsome devil
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LaConner,Washington
Posts: 3,477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough
Both points taken ...Thank you
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 07-14-2008
arbarnhart's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 761
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
arbarnhart is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillraining View Post
Both points taken ...Thank you
Pun intended? Sorry, could not resist.

From my rafting days, it almost seems like we need a low point. I slipped some pretty big people over 17" tubes with one hand with an oar under one knee.
__________________
-Andy
Newport 17 - "Kohanna"
At sea Darwin's hypotheses is the final arbiter of right of way.

Last edited by arbarnhart; 07-14-2008 at 11:14 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 07-14-2008
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 5,823
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 0
bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about
David, what I about to say is going to harsh. I have had the unfortunate cause to have my wife pick me up out of the water.

It can happen

She was on the boat with my 5 year old son at the time when I was in the water. She knew better to enter the water after me even if I could not help my self.

My advice is to you is be sure you have lifting tackle you can rig from the boom end. However, better 1 victim than 2!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quickstop COB recovery ccboston Seamanship & Navigation 6 04-11-2004 01:33 PM
Modern Crew Overboard Rescues John Rousmaniere Seamanship Articles 0 07-06-2003 09:00 PM
Modern Crew Overboard Rescues John Rousmaniere Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 07-06-2003 09:00 PM
Modern Crew Overboard Rescues John Rousmaniere Racing Articles 0 07-06-2003 09:00 PM
Thoughts on COB Retrieval John Rousmaniere Seamanship Articles 0 01-25-2002 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:23 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.