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post #21 of 173 Old 07-15-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
I have found that some anchors in SOME bottoms need to just work themselves into the bottom slowly rather than being dragged. I have found that the CQR in particular and Delta's to a lesser extent benefit from some time with light loads on them to bury and set properly particularly in mud or muddy sand bottoms.
Cam having used CQR's for many, many years I have to disagree. I have tried every method and the letting it sit method still in about 70% of the cases still left it parially set and I could yank it out hours later before I went to bed and backed down on it. The only way I found to successfully hit about an 80% success rate on the first set with my CQR's, and this involved diving to confirm when the vis was good enough, was to to test snubs on the initial play out slowly jerking it into the bottom. As I stated I let the boats weight stop on the initial set then back down. I found no added benefit, even as much as 6 hours later, to the let it settle method and could literally drag my anchor around the cove.

A properly sized and set CQR WILL HOLD a sailboat AUX at 80% throttle an improperly set one will plow the bottom in preparation for corn season. If you can drag your CQR it is NOT set!

My Rocna sets like I'm tied to a pier in about two to three feet every time for over 120 anchorings thus far....

This is my 35 CQR (on the right) that I used to use. As you can see it has many, many hundreds of anchorings on it and my write up above was based on my personal experience with the CQR and others..

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post #22 of 173 Old 07-15-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
When I mention partially set CQR's this photo is exactly what I'm referring to. This pictured CQR is NOT SET!!!!
Useful post. But I disagree with you regarding this photo. This CQR has its point buried down and is well set, probably driven in as hard as can be achieved by motoring in reverse. It will not shift provided the pull stays in the same direction, though a strong blow and snatching swells might drive the point further downwards and so in harder.

Where the CQR differs from other plow types such as the Delta is in the hinged shank, which allows, in fact encourages it to set partly on its side. A Delta in this position would not be set as a further pull would not tend to force down the point. It has to turn upright which in my experience makes them harder to achieve a decent set, though very solid once it has been done.

We sharpen the tip of our CQR which helps a lot in getting that initial bite, specially on weed.
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post #23 of 173 Old 07-15-2008 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LynW View Post
Useful post. But I disagree with you regarding this photo. This CQR has its point buried down and is well set, probably driven in as hard as can be achieved by motoring in reverse. It will not shift provided the pull stays in the same direction, though a strong blow and snatching swells might drive the point further downwards and so in harder.

Where the CQR differs from other plow types such as the Delta is in the hinged shank, which allows, in fact encourages it to set partly on its side. A Delta in this position would not be set as a further pull would not tend to force down the point. It has to turn upright which in my experience makes them harder to achieve a decent set, though very solid once it has been done.

We sharpen the tip of our CQR which helps a lot in getting that initial bite, specially on weed.
I'm sorry you feel that way and that you accept that photo as a properly set CQR...

I can assure you that anchor is not set. I have seen my own CQR set like that many times and when I backed down it un-set about 30% of the time! A properly set CQR will bury with the plow vertical just as a Delta will but it needs to be properly backed down on to to do this.

The CQR "partial set" is may be linked to the hinge but this "partial set" is most likely also linked to many, many drags and a false sense of security in benign conditions as happened to me the other night when I was dragged onto. I can think of no other anchor that needs a careful and proper set more than the CQR..

P.S. I have been dragged onto, just this season alone, by two separate and inept CQR users...

CQR's will set but that photo is NOT a set CQR for anything over mild wind conditions.

That anchor may set if you apply horse power and it may not. In my experience, in that orientation, it will set about 70% of the time from that position. That leaves about a 30% failure rate from the "partial set" orientation... Even a 5% failure rate is unacceptable when dealing with lives and 5,6 and 7 figure vessels 30% is ridiculous..

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 07-15-2008 at 04:49 PM.
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post #24 of 173 Old 07-15-2008
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Hal
Great post, full of good guidelines, but in anchoring all input is a guide, there is never a hard and fast rule except one - if you are set you don't/won't move outside your swing circle.
The best place to set the anchor alarm on the GPS is when / where you drop the anchor, not all the way back on the rode, then set the alarm to go off if you move more than the swing circle - otherwise you get false alarms as you move around and too many false alarms become easily ignored.

Seeing as I'm one of those highly disparaged guys with the electric windlass on the bow that can drop a anchor without leaving the helm all I have to say is I've never dragged on my little bitty 25 lb danforth, 25 ft of 1/4 inch chain and rope rode set in good old Chesapeake mud. Dropping my stern anchor to prevent swing just adds candy to the party, of course my favorite stern anchor is a big old tree on the bank (eat draft mono's )
I have a good bit more windage than most folks IF the wind gets on my beam, but with two hulls the wind tends to funnel between them and keep me pointed pretty good. Current and tidal current depends on depth of the current, drawing 18 inches makes it problematic at times.

I am considering a 35 lb Manson, if it fits my rollers.
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post #25 of 173 Old 07-15-2008
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I find the "setting of the anchor" question interesting. Doesn't the anchor tend to set when the wind slowly builds and puts more and more strain on the anchor? Isn't that the same as backing down? Although I always back down to lay out the chain and set the anchor, I am convinced that it takes a while to "soak" and really set. If a wind comes up shortly after anchoring I am much more concerned than if I have been on the hook for a couple days. Of course if I am really concerned I just lay out all my chain (280') regardless of the depth, if there is room. In that case very little strain is ever on the anchor because there are hundreds of pounds of chain to drag around first. Chain doesn't do any good in the locker.

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
Shakespeare, Julius Caesar IV, iii, 217
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post #26 of 173 Old 07-15-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Hal
.

I am considering a 35 lb Manson, if it fits my rollers.
You'll be very happy with that anchor...!

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post #27 of 173 Old 07-15-2008
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Great information. As a rookie sailboater and anchor setter I have trouble backing down with the horrible prop walk to port that is just one of the charming features of my boat. I have had good success ghosting up to were I want the anchor to be in neutral, sand bottom with clear water, and let the wind blow me back until I have the scope out that I want. Then I cleat off the rode and let the momentum set the anchor. When I have tried to back down it usually ends up looking like a goofy corkscrew unless I get enough sternway to achieve steerage which ends up being almost two knots. That can bury the anchor deeply but requires some fast hands to cleat off the nylon rode without loosing a finger. I always dive the anchor to confirm it is set well but do wish I could back down with the engine in anything resembling a straight line at .3 to .5 knots as described. Suggestions are welcome.
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post #28 of 173 Old 07-15-2008 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FarCry View Post
Great information. As a rookie sailboater and anchor setter I have trouble backing down with the horrible prop walk to port that is just one of the charming features of my boat. I have had good success ghosting up to were I want the anchor to be in neutral, sand bottom with clear water, and let the wind blow me back until I have the scope out that I want. Then I cleat off the rode and let the momentum set the anchor. When I have tried to back down it usually ends up looking like a goofy corkscrew unless I get enough sternway to achieve steerage which ends up being almost two knots. That can bury the anchor deeply but requires some fast hands to cleat off the nylon rode without loosing a finger. I always dive the anchor to confirm it is set well but do wish I could back down with the engine in anything resembling a straight line at .3 to .5 knots as described. Suggestions are welcome.
Short bursts of reverse will tend to minimize the prop walk. Also wait till the boat is resting on the rode, pointed into the wind before you hit reverse then load her up for about 10 to 20 seconds each burst. Wait in between bursts for the wind to set you straight again and load her up again.. Do this a few of times and you should be fine and you won't have a huge prop walk issue.

Any time you're backing use "bursts" of reverse instead of steady & constant reverse and you'll do much better and be able to steer the boat straighter..

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post #29 of 173 Old 07-15-2008
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I just anchored for the first time...!!!!


Please stop reading now if you have no sense of humor...or will be upset about a wee bit of fun with a subject so serious as this... or better yet, just skip this all together and print it out for bathroom reading as it really contributes nothing to this informative thread.



Well, thanks to my esteemed YC commodore, and Halekai's posts I now consider myself an expert in "dropping the old hook" as it were.

Allow me to relate to the play by play from my first anchoring experience.

We're on the Magothy. Friday nights with the YCCSC... showers on and off ...humidity 110% ....wind -3kts out of N by NSWE (Chesapeake sailors will know what I mean...) Pretty standard conditions.

The raft up was planned for about 730pm and wouldn't you know it...a race broke out before hand. This happens sometimes... I'm not sure how it was decided but Chuckles threw a bunch of signs out on the side of his boat and we all drifted in a little circle. Some had to be pushed by Chuckles in the right direction.

I managed to drift the course faster than my under-beer'd competitors. (the reason I knew they didn't have enough beer will become evident later...)

So...as I blasted at 0.0000005kts over the finish line to win by 17 minutes and 0.5 boat lengths... (you need that kind of resolution on your speed instruments on the Magothy) Chuckles hails me on the VHF. Here is a transcription of that most informative conversation, as my Commodore mentors me through this most serious of tasks....

The bay, and most of it's rivers are about 250 ft. deep. That's right... the problem is... it's only a very thin layer of water (usually about 10 ft) that covers about 240ft. of mushy black mud. Some people call the mud "the bottom"...

back to the VHF:

Chuckles: "Craig, do you have your VHF on?"

(apparently he did that a few times.. then just screamed over)

Chuckles [screaming]: CRAIG!! VHF 68...!!!

Craig [VHF]: Hi CHuck!

Chuckles [VHF]: Hi Craig, how do you say the name of your boat?

Craig: "ser" like in ceramic and "sha" like "sha la la la la"...

Chuck: Riiiiiight... ok...so you wanna raft up?

Craig: Sure!

Chuck: Ok well we usually anchor right over there in about 5 ft. of water, what do you draw?

Craig: um....I like to draw mountain scenes (I'm thinking ... what the hell?)

Chuckles: No, how much water does your boat need to not hit bottom?

Craig: OOOohhh ... heh about 4 ft.

Chuck: Well it seems I've got to wait a while till everyone crosses, why don't you go over there and anchor and when everyone crosses we'll raft up to you.

[silence....]

Chuck: Craig you copy that?

Craig: Yeah... um anchor.. never done that before....

Chuck: Do you have an anchor? Yes you do... I see it on the front of the boat... What kind is it?

Craig: Hold on let me check....

I ran to the front of the boat... and called Chuck

Craig: [very proud] Chuck, we're in luck... it's metal...must be a good one! I knew Sabre wouldn't skimp out.

Chuck: Riiiiight.. Ok.. .Is it attached to the boat?

Craig: Wow! Look at this.. a little door and everything! And here's another metal one! I've got two!

Chuck: Ok... .I think we'll just need one.

Craig: Pretty cool that I have a spare huh? DO you have two? You've got two hulls...! DO you need two?

Chuck: Yes. Very cool.. no I .. nevermind... Now free-up the rode and make sure ... wait...what I mean is.. the rope...that's attached to your anchor on the front... not the spare.... make sure you have it all untangled...and on deck.. When that's done call me back.

Craig: Ok.. all done....

Chuck: Do you have chain attached to the anchor before the rope?

Craig: yep!

Chuck: How much?

Craig: Alot!

Chuck: Ok..... Well when the boat stops moving forward bump it into reverse and drift backwards... Lower (don't drop) the big metal thing and then slowly let out the chain until you let about 80 or so feet out. Snug it up a few times on the way out, tie it off and then put it in reverse a bunch and try to pull it out.

Yadda yadda... that all worked just fine.. I prefer my method of just aggressively dropping the big parking finger that's below the keel... but you know.. when you belong to a yacht club.. you've got to "keep up...."

Turns out.. I thought the other competitors were monitoring 68, but no one came up and rafted with me except Chuck.. just got some some nervous laughter when I tried to contact them over the VHF.... I figure it was because they ran out of beer. (It was a long race...)

Chuckles, his lovely wife and their friend rafted up next to Dad and I and we had a great time touring each other's boats and hanging out.

After an hour or two Chuckles had to head in. I had to get the big metal thing off the "bottom".... What a freakin' mess that was.... Most of the mud came up with the metal thing... I mean.. how unlucky was I? The pointy end dug in and the shovel part scooped up like 20lbs of mud.. which ended up ALL OVER the front of my boat... Some mud even made it into the new secret door compartment which I had just found. (Gonna take off the anchors and make a beer cooler out of that puppy btw.. pics to follow...it even has a drain for melting ice..)

So anyway. In the future.. I'll just throw out a rope off the front (for looks)and drop the parking finger..I figure no-one will know the difference.

See ya'll soon in a cozy cove!

Craig


-C2
1987 Sabre 34 "Saoirse"
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post #30 of 173 Old 07-15-2008 Thread Starter
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Awsome!

Now that's a funny story!!! You got rep for that!!!

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 07-15-2008 at 06:52 PM.
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