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  #21  
Old 07-17-2008
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I agree with Moonfish and Pigslo, the market dicates what people buy.The market produces what the people will buy. In reality, if we sail, we are in the minority. Why would you buy something you can't tube behind. Too slow to do much, too fast to fish. Go to Yachtworld and do the numbers....we are a minority.

NEVER call someones baby UGLY. Their wife, child, car, or boat is never ugly! How would you like it if we called yours ugly.....even if it is?

CD would say, and I of course would agree, "If you can't have a Catalina, settle for what you can!"
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  #22  
Old 09-09-2009
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Macgregor bashing are idiots.

I agree, Mac bashing are done by non Mac owners who are idiots and has no idea what they are talking about. You guys have no idea how fun it is to be able to sail many bodies of waters and be able to camp in campgrounds, lake, river hopping. Do you bash Kayakers who own those cheap plastic kayaks vs those who have more expensive ones? I never hear a mac owner bash about the bad experience they had on a Mac, even after they sold them and moved to bigger boats. There is a niche in the market for a true trailable sailboat. It has sold more boats than any boat in production. Yes it is a clorox bottle but you will never have to clean teak. Most trailable sailboats are a beast and not practicle to really trailer. I own a Mac 26s (not powersailor) version but have thought about buying the newer version 26M. I really like how easy it is to launch and retrieve. Ive seen smaller boats that have difficulty retrieving theirs and shock how easy it was for me to haul mines. My Mac has a PHRF rating of 240. Would you use a blue water like a flicka pacific seacraft 20' boat to sail in rivers and Lakes? Of course not it would be really slow and not practicle (you would need to step the mast up and down) about 2 hours of prep. You are a fool if you plan to sail in blue water with a mac. If you guys check the prices of a used Mac, the resale value is actually great, so these are not being sold as used junk as most used boats. My 1994 Mac 26S sells for about $9,000 (remember 1994 Macs sold for around $13,000 new). If you plan to buy a mac, please read carefully who actually says negative things about them. This Mac bashing is like the long agrgument when fiberglass boats first came into the market as plastic junk vs wooden boats...Macs and Hunters are here to stay and there is nothing you could do about it. I guess if it makes you happy shoot yourself on the foot because every time someone does search on Google about Mac 26, its always a non owner who bashes. A person who really wants to do a research will see through that, as a result you will get the truth from Macgregor owners and only help sell Macgregors. So next time you see a Mac or Hunter owner near a water resort on the road while you are on vacation and you are far away from your boat, ask yourself "don't you wish you could bring your boat". I always asked myself that when I didn't bring my boat.

Last edited by MiniTransat; 09-09-2009 at 03:26 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2009
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bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about bubb2 has a spectacular aura about
A few years back there was a new guy that shows up in our marina with a Macgregor 26M that had no name. The story goes he bought the boat at a boat show thinking it was going to do everything he ever wanted a boat to do. The best of both worlds.

We started ribbing him that the boat didn't have a name and that was unlucky! He was never happy with the boat and said he did not know how long he was going to keep it and why name it. This went on for about half the season.

One day there was lettering on the transom of the boat.

It read........ Mac & Cheesy
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  #24  
Old 09-09-2009
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I saw one the other day without a mast. Guess they just gave up
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  #25  
Old 09-09-2009
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Mac Owners,

Stop taking the abuse and bullying. At every chance you get, tell, write, scream to all those sailors with "blue water", has been, restored, being restored, project boats from yesteryear what a piece of junk they have and how stupid they are to waste time and money on such trash. And if they have a great big, shiney late model yacht, tell them how stupid they are to waste good money on some ego building boat just so they can strut around like a bunch of windbags. Mac owners, don't even try to defend your decision, just hit back hard.

There's lots of bullying that goes on in boating. To those dishing it out, it's good fun, but it's not much fun to be on the receiving end. People buy Mac's for many reasons...sometimes it's cost, sometimes it's for flexibility, sometimes because they want to travel, or to minimize upkeep hassles, etc.
And, just like all other types and sizes, sometimes because they are new at it.

And to those of you doing it, just what fun do you get from making someone feel bad about his selection?
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  #26  
Old 09-09-2009
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I completely understand that we all come to sailing with our own goals, tastes, ablitities, functional requirements, budgets and geography based needs, which in effect means that there is no one universally right boat for everyone, and almost no single boat that does not make sense for anyone. In any intellectually honest discussion of a boat buying choice, it is important to try to understand whether any given design might work for someone, and why it might not work for others.

In that kind of discussion, it is important to try to define the merits and liabilities of any given design, which often means trying to compare the boat under discussion relative to other boats that are out there. This of course will result in a healthy give and take which hopefully defines the issues from all sides.

This kind of discussion often includes the pure opinion of the responders which may be based on direct experience or on simple bias. While well-meaning posters may try to filter out or highlight when something is simply a personal prejudice, speaking for myself, that is not always very easy when many of these pre-conceptions are so deeply engrained from or derive from the type of sailing and experiences that individual sailor has had.

From my perspective, when someone honestly discusses the negatives of a particular manufacturer or model, it is rarely about making someone feel badly about their choice of boat; neither should it be about having fun. My sense of the average person on SailNet is that they are people who are genuinely trying to be helpful with their input, and while discussions can devolve into a personal battle, or rely too heavily on 'the court of public opinion', most who post on this forum are here to be helpful and pass along what they think of as 'good advice'.

As a SailNet moderator, I hate to see discussions break down to food fights that do not attempt to accurately provide useful information. It is easy with any discussion of value oriented, large production number boat builders to do a pile on, but that does not make it right.

We moderators are not here to censor wisecracks unless they turn into personal attacks, but speaking for myself, I would like ask my fellow denizens of these boards to think about the source and motivation of for your comments before you post them and to please try to take the high road.

This should not be construed to mean, that I am saying do not post negative items about specific manufacturers or models. As I said before, both pluses and minuses are key to an honest discussion. But what I am suggesting is that you filter your posts in your own mind to at least attempt eliminate gratuitous negative comments, and to provide an honest opinion based on what you have experienced, or heard and when in doubt about your source, state the basis for your opinion so readers can understand where you are coming from and as much as possible owners of those boats do not feel 'bashed by the mob'.

Respectfully,
Jeff
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  #27  
Old 09-09-2009
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Hunter vs MacGregor

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
Nice to see Hunter setting the bar high...
A mis-nomer if I ever heard one!

Being a MacGregor owner I just had to take a critical look at the new Hunter Edge, after all, I really have an appreciation for the concept. They had it on display at the 2009 Vancouver Int'l Boat Show so I took advantage of getting an on board first hand look at it.
It definately had some major improvements over the MacGregor, no denying it, but it also had several de-merits.
Yes they raised the bar on the tow vehicle required to tow it, with a trailer/boat combo well over 6000 lbs you now need a class 4 tow beast to haul that sucker around - only a class 3 required for the Mac.
The Hunter is priced substantially higher than a Mac, enough to deter a large market share.
The Hunter Edge does not have a jib track, I looked for one and only saw a jib sheet block bolted to the forward deck, ditto for a genoa track, there is none nor is there any hardware to accomodate one. The boat/deck was not built to accomodate either track even as aftermarket add-on. No traveler either, no sail trimming required I suppose. The Mac has all these sail trim components and then some and a lower price tag.
The Hunter had a very inovative rudder system, I thought it was a good idea even if it did occupy a large space in the cockpit. The Hunter also has a wider beam, something I really feel is lacking in the Mac as it only has a 7'10" beam compared to the 8'4" beam of the Hunter. A full 8'6" road legal beam would be the ultimate trailersailer beam.
Overall the Hunter Edge is a viable alternative but I believe the price point and towing requirements will be detrimental.

As for the bashing of these kind of boats, I don't even see it as fun, those who do are of the same mentality as the typical school yard bully and we all know what they are.
Hybrid trailersailers have a loyal following and they are very versatile. Here in the PNW they are made to order for our short sailing season and protected coastal waterway. The view from my MacGregor cockpit is the same as the view from any other boat out there and mine costs a lot less to operate and maintain. I can sail from the southern Puget Sound all the way north to the Broughtons and everything in between and it will take me many years to see it all and that does not even count the places I can trailer to.
As for aesthetics, well beauty is in the eye of the beholder, The Edge or Mac may not have the traditional appearance but they have their own individuality. The Edge reminds me of the 1930's gangster car look with that low slung forward deck, rather cool, the Mac has a sleek modern look with the double row of windows, but that is only my opinion. We all have opinions as to what looks appealing, just take a look at the interior decor of various homes out there, the range of home design is very diverse and each design speaks of the owners personality. Same as for boats, wether it be power, sail or hybrid we each have a preference and what we choose fits our lifestyle as do our cars.
There really is no excuse for bashing others' boats and only the cowards do it here because they can hide behind an anonymous moniker. I get a lot of interested boaters looking over my Mac and am quick to point out it's virtues and limitations to those who ask. It works for me!
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  #28  
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I own a Bene. If you Mac owners would do searches about the Catalina/Hunter/Beneteau (production boats) bashing you would see that not all the bashing is directed at Mac's only. However, The Mac owners are the most defensive about it.

Jeff H, bashes Island Packets.

Ford or Chevy, Ben & Jerry or Baskin & Robbins. Pepsi or coke. People have preferences and they will let you know about them. The same thing goes for sailboats. Don't take it so personal. If I had a dollar for everyone who told me a Bene was a P.O.S., I would own a Hallberg!

You Mac owners need to get over it. If you were not so defensive about your boats, there would be less fuel for the fire.
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  #29  
Old 09-09-2009
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Nothing personal ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
I own a Bene. If you Mac owners would do searches about the Catalina/Hunter/Beneteau (production boats) bashing you would see that not all the bashing is directed at Mac's only. However, The Mac owners are the most defensive about it.

Jeff H, bashes Island Packets.

Ford or Chevy, Ben & Jerry or Baskin & Robbins. Pepsi or coke. People have preferences and they will let you know about them. The same thing goes for sailboats. Don't take it so personal. If I had a dollar for everyone who told me a Bene was a P.O.S., I would own a Hallberg!

You Mac owners need to get over it. If you were not so defensive about your boats, there would be less fuel for the fire.
Someone on this site once wrote that when you ignore something that is wrong, you condone it, endorse it and encourage more of it.
Sounds logical to me. I thought this was SailNet not Sailing Anarchy and because most of the time I read worthy material here I come back for more.
Boat bashing is nothing less than bullying as is car bashing or any other form of verbal bullying, it still amounts to bullying which is a very uncivilized and primitive behavior.
One of the characteristics of this site that I have noticed is the very polished use of english grammar and spelling. It really reflects the level of education and intellect of members on this site. It portrays the gentlemen style of sailors and the advice offered qualifies this. To denigrate the character of such professional sailors with the kind of negative bantering that the boorish minority indulge in should not be tolerated. I believe we are here to help one another and encourage others to engage in a sport that we consider a passion and if we truly hope to keep the spirit of this sport alive it is imperative that we portray ourselves as the professional role models that newbies hope to learn from. It matters not what sailboat we sail but moreso what experience we can share with others.
As far as the Benehuntalinas go, well, I recently saw a nice Catalina (aprox 34')that was love at first sight, and I still hope to own a Bene First 367 and Hunter does build a luxurious interior but my heart belongs to a Morris 42'.
We have both a Ford and Chev in our household, both are fine. No need to have a fist fight over personal preferences


Jeff H wrote:
"My sense of the average person on SailNet is that they are people who are genuinely trying to be helpful with their input, and while discussions can devolve into a personal battle, or rely too heavily on 'the court of public opinion', most who post on this forum are here to be helpful and pass along what they think of as 'good advice'. "
I think this sums it up quite well!
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  #30  
Old 09-09-2009
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People need to lighten up - come on "bullying" - really? Geesh

Not a whole lot different than making fun of/criticizing a Pontiac Aztec - oh no, did I just bully someone that owned an Aztec - the vehicle that's part car, part suv, part camper, and in most people's minds fugly... The Edsel? The Pacer? The Pinto?

Are movie and food critics bullies? When someone at Cruising World writes a negative review about a boat are they a bully. This has really gotten a bit too serious don't you think?

To each their own. If you have a Mac and like it then what others say shouldn't bother you.
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Last edited by drgamble; 09-09-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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