I wanna do something stupid... - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 07-24-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
MWROHDE-

Might want to do a bit more reading... From some of the articles regarding the current investigation:

Quote:
When the racing sailboat Cynthia Woods ran aground on a sandbar in June 2006, it caused quite a stir among administrators at Texas A&M-Galveston.

The newly acquired and very expensive vessel, donated by the school's leading philanthropist, was not visibly damaged. But the skipper that day, Jim Atchley, was formally scolded for decisions he made when trying to get the boat off the sandbar.


Less than a year later, in March 2007, the Cynthia Woods hit bottom again. The damage was more serious in that incident — the keel was knocked loose and water was leaking into the bottom of the boat.


But that grounding brought about no inquiry, recommendation or rebuke of Atchley, who managed the sailing team and the small boat operations at the Galveston campus. Not a single e-mailed explanation circulated to anyone at the school, either locally or in College Station. The $1,800 repair was treated as routine maintenance.


The question of why there was so little reaction to the damage done to a $360,000 boat cuts to the heart of Texas A&M's inquiry into last month's deadly accident aboard the Cynthia Woods. Central among the issues that experts will be asked to determine is whether pre-existing damage played a significant role in the keel falling off 10 hours into an offshore race from Galveston to Mexico. The keel loss flipped the boat over and tossed its crew of six into the water. Safety officer Roger Stone drowned.


The damage was caused in March 2007 when the Cynthia Woods experienced a hard grounding on an oyster reef. A&M took the vessel out of the water for repairs, some of which were done by a local boatyard, and some of which were performed by Atchley and students.

Skipper's actions

The lawyer for Cape Fear Yacht Works, the company that built the boat and a defendant in a recent lawsuit brought by Stone's widow, said Atchley's actions after the second grounding suggest that he wanted to downplay the damage and repairs to stay below the radar of top school officials.

"He knew enough that something needed fixing," attorney Steven Grubbs said. "And if he knew that, why did he do it himself and not call in structural experts? If you think you need to add strength to the keel area, why wouldn't that send up a big red flag?"


Though groundings are not uncommon in the shallow waters around Galveston Bay, a loosened keel was a potentially serious problem. Boats with keel issues sometimes end up totaled by the companies that insure them.


There is no indication among A&M's records that the boat's insurer was notified or that consultation with a marine surveyor or engineering expert was considered. The only official mention of the problem is an invoice from the Payco Marine boatyard for $1,862 to reattach the keel, and several receipts signed by Atchley from a local marine store for fiberglass resin and mats, hardener and epoxy, along with tools for applying it.

Exactly, when was this boat cleared by a professional following the 2007 grounding???



Quote:
Originally Posted by mwrohde View Post
That boat was cleared by a professional, was it not?
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 07-24-2008
JagsBch's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 371
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
JagsBch is on a distinguished road
I really don't have time to read a book. I will be back here tomorrow after work and print a few things to take with me this weekend. Again the last survey had the boat out to be in pretty good shape. I just need to confirm things have not deteriated too much since then as well as make my own judgements... My main concern is trying to determine what shape the hull is in without actually pulling it out of the water.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 07-24-2008
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
dell30rb is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
Please read this thread, over looking the little things or things that only the pro's would pick up on, can cost a lot.
I've read it. my comment was a joke... a flux capacitor ?

Last edited by dell30rb; 07-24-2008 at 11:59 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 07-24-2008
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
dell30rb is on a distinguished road
jagsbch, you never mentioned what type of boat you are going to look at. Do alot of vessel specific research, identify potential common trouble spots, and look for them. Also if you are concerned about the shape of the hull below the waterline... what kind of keel design is it? If the keel bolts on to the hull, you will definitely want to inspect the keel bolts. Diving on the boat will pretty much only tell you the keel is there. If its a full keel design, a thorough tapping of the hull with a plastic mallet will let you know if there are any huge trouble spots, but there is a good chance you can overlook something. Obviously its always best to get it surveyed, but if its a budget boat, the survey only adds to the budget.

I actually just comitted to buying a boat for 5k today, no survey. The owner has a receipt for a full sanding and bottom paint job from January of this year though, and the comments by the yard guy read "hull is in sound condition, no repairs necessary" so I can feel confident about that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 07-24-2008
jjablonowski's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bristol, Rhode Island
Posts: 381
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 8
jjablonowski is on a distinguished road
Survey NOT needed for insurance

My insurance company said that, for boats under $10,000, they waived the requirement for a survey.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 07-25-2008
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,788
Thanks: 2
Thanked 97 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Jags-
I think the thinking behind some of the "get a surveryor" comments may be more along the lines of "if you don't know what to look for, you don't know what to look for!"
A rubber mallet is nice, a knee-reflex-test mallet would do. And two fingers can also tap just as well. Not just the hull, but the DECK, which often will have water-penetration and delamination along hatches and edges, and the extent of that can be terribly serious.
A surveryor should also have a moisture meter, which can give a bit more information about how dry the hull is--but that also takes some experience to read and interpret.

Inside, you are looking for anything that is wrong, compared to your knowledge of other boats. Water stains on bulkheads or near chainplates. Corroded wiring. Oil in the bilge or under the engine. Engine oil that has JUST been changed, also often means something is being hidden. An engine itself usually needs a mechanic--not a general surveryor--to look at it.

Rigging may often require a rigging surveyor. Assuming it is wire, not rod? Run a cloth up and down, the presence of ANY meathooks, even one, means replace it. And the modern thinking is that rigging 10-20 years old (pick any number in between) needs replacement anyway. Check the spreader tips, spreader positions. Check the gooseneck for wear. Check the turnbuckles, any sign of rust or hints of cracks means replace them all. Lifelines? If they are coated with white vinyl, you can't tell what's under it. Stanchions? Are they all secure, or do the bases wiggle? Which probably means water penetration as well.

On and on it goes. If you start at the bow and work aft, as if you were checking a boat for a sea voyage, you should be able to survey it--if and only if, you already know what 'wrong' looks like for every system. Obvisouly at $8k you're willing to take some hances and you know there'll be some work. But some things, like keel bolts, keel leaks, water in the bilge, have to be taken very seriously if you find problems.

If the seller has any problems with a line in the sale contract about "the seller has no knowledge of any repairs or defects other than as stated herein"...find out why. A lot of folks will say "gee, i just forgot, didn't I tell you about that?" but putting things in writing forces them to 'fess up most of the time.

Good luck with it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 07-25-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,291
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
LOL... very nice...
Quote:
If the seller has any problems with a line in the sale contract about "the seller has no knowledge of any repairs or defects other than as stated herein"...find out why. A lot of folks will say "gee, i just forgot, didn't I tell you about that?" but putting things in writing forces them to 'fess up most of the time.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 07-25-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sugar Hill, GA
Posts: 159
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mwrohde is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
MWROHDE-

Might want to do a bit more reading... From some of the articles regarding the current investigation:




Exactly, when was this boat cleared by a professional following the 2007 grounding???
I stand corrected.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 07-25-2008
eherlihy's Avatar
Learning the HARD way...
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 3,607
Thanks: 118
Thanked 65 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 8
eherlihy will become famous soon enough
I started a thread in the same vein some time ago. You can re-read the wisdom that I recieved here.

Initially I discounted the use of a moisture meter, however after the broker pulled one out, and let me play with it, I bought one. Cost new was ~$200.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 07-25-2008
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,788
Thanks: 2
Thanked 97 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Where'd you get one that cheap?!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I wanna catch some fish! deniseO30 Chesapeake Bay 0 09-22-2007 12:06 PM
No Stupid Questions NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 05-19-2007 03:15 PM
Stupid Sailor Tricks! Gavin1 Seamanship & Navigation 11 11-22-2002 02:47 PM
Stupid Sailor Tricks! Gavin1 General Discussion (sailing related) 3 04-02-2002 08:53 AM
Wanna trade?? auto General Discussion (sailing related) 5 01-17-2002 07:27 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:12 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.