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  #21  
Old 08-18-2008
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Not to get off topic, but what's wrong with using old mainsheets as the jackline granted they are not too old and fraid?

Why the webbing stuff and not line? Is it because the line would chafe easier???

Just curious about this...
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  #22  
Old 08-18-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ippa2 View Post
Not to get off topic, but what's wrong with using old mainsheets as the jackline granted they are not too old and fraid?

Why the webbing stuff and not line? Is it because the line would chafe easier???

Just curious about this...
For one, the webbing is flat, the line will roll underfoot, thus creating a slipping hazard.
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Old 08-18-2008
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Polyester is better for jacklines

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Originally Posted by xort View Post
I'm going to use nylon web strap. Was thinking of visiting a climbing shop to buy the stuff. suggestions on what to look for?
i bought my jacklines at a climbing shop and had loops sewn in by a sailmaker. I certainly would suggest polyester webbing rather than nylon though since you do not want the large amount of stretch in nylon.
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  #24  
Old 08-18-2008
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The stretch factor is something I hadn't considered with web strap. The suggestion that side load vs straight pull is different I hadn't considered either.

Any more votes for Poly web vs nylon web?

I have a snap shackle from the old WM jackline. I was thinking I would buy a double length of whatever line and tie it half way at the snap shackle then run half down each side of the boat. What's wrong with this idea?
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Old 08-18-2008
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No...poly degrades rapidly in UV...not suitable for jacklines.

EDIT: Note...I thought the question was for polypropelene which DOES degrade quickly. Polyester is more UV resistant as noted by Pyro below.
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Old 08-18-2008
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Old mainsheets, especially if they're dacron, may have lost significant strength... and they're difficult to differentiate from other lines... what if you accidentally clipped into your jib sheets by accident??? Finally, as Max-on points out...they roll underfoot. Pretty stupid idea IMHO to use recycled lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ippa2 View Post
Not to get off topic, but what's wrong with using old mainsheets as the jackline granted they are not too old and fraid?

Why the webbing stuff and not line? Is it because the line would chafe easier???

Just curious about this...
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FWIW In a previous career I ran a factory manufacturing climbing harnesses and related equipment, I designed (and tested to destruction) all the equipment we made. I tend to shop in outdoor stores for most of my safety equipment (unless I make it myself) as it climbing gear is made to CE & ISO standards which (IMO) exceed any demands that may be made while sailing. I am not sure of the standards for sailing safety gear but have seen some very dodgy teathers for sale in marine shops over here (in Australia). (I have also seen some good stuff so do your research carefully).

Knots vs Stitching
The correct knot is stronger than stitching. The strongest sewn join is a bar tack, followed by a box pattern. The bar tack is made using a programmable sewing machine, the strongest pattern (number of bars, width, size and number of stitches) will vary from webbing to webbing, so it needs to be tested to destruction. Generally a bar tacked join will reduce the strength of the webbing by 10 to 20%. A knot will reduce the strength of the join by less than 10%. And a join sewen with a walking foot machine (as used by your sailmaker) will reduce the strength of the webbing by 15-50%. Keep in mind that if you are sewing a loop on the end of a tether there are two lengths of webbing in the loop vs 1 length for the rest of it. The teather that failed in the 88 sydney to hobart was sewen using a walking foot machine, with a basic box pattern.

Karabiners
As a previous poster pointed out most climbing gear is alloy, this performs badly in a salt water environment, especially if it uses a mix of metals. The advantage of climbing Karabiners is that they have a locking mechanism that is designed to be opened with one hand. Snap locks with no locking mechanism can undo themselves when connected to a solid ring, or another karabiner. This includes pad eyes, so if you want to be safe you should use a locking Karabiner. I generally use alloy biners and accept the fact that I will need to replace them every year or so. Washing after use & proper storage helps them to last. I have noticed a few stainless locking karabiners around the place.

Loads
When a line is stretched tight and a load is placed in the middle of it, pulling at 90 degrees the load on the line will be several times greater than if the line was pulled straight. Think how you can haul a sail up by pulling on the halyard between the mast exit and the block on the coach roof. The person pulling the halyard can exert more force than the person grinding a winch with a significant mechanical advantage. For the maths on this you will need to check out a high school trigonometry text. One quick example, if we have a jack line that is 5m from one attachment to another and stretched tight. If someone falls on the mid point of this line and the line deflects by 10 degrees the force exerted on each end point will be 5.7 times the weight of that person.

Fabric
Nylon has very poor UV resistance, but good strength & stretch (this helps to reduce shock load)
Polyester has reasonable UV resistance and reasonable strength.

Last edited by pyro42; 08-18-2008 at 09:49 PM.
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Can you give your observations on types of amterials?
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The carabiners used for a tether's boat end should be double action ones, like the Gibb, Wichard or Kong hooks used on most commercial tethers.

This is a Gibb double action safety clip:



This is a Wichard double action safety hook



Here is a tether with a Kong double action safety hook



The body side should be a snap shackle, so that it can be opened easily under load, in case you are trapped by the tether.

Best material for the jacklines is Spectra or Dyneema rope (6mm or so) inside a nylon or dacron tubular webbing. The rope provides the strength, the webbing provides UV/Chafe protection as well as allows you to easily distinguish the jacklines without seeing them.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

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Old 08-18-2008
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Do they make it in blue?

Would go better with my PFD....

One thing I noticed when i was single handing the other day (first time.. can I get a "way to go C2!!!!" ?) is that my tether was too long.. When i was in the cockpit.... it would tangle on things whilst attached to pedestal for instance...

SD, In that pic above, is the tether inside an "elastic" cover which allows it to retract? I hate the tripping hazard ... or is this just something I have to get used to ?
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