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Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
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  #11  
Old 08-31-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okawbow View Post
Today I solo'ed about 25 miles in 5-10 steady wind, on a lake with considerable powerboat chop. I sail a 5800# Bristol 24, full keel, inboard with 2 blade fixed prop. The PHRF is about 282. the thing that was so unusual today, was that I passed just about every boat I came up to. There were at least 100 sailboats out on the lake that is about 8 miles by 2 miles. I passed, on a close reach, a 30 + foot Benetau with full main and roller furling genoa. The guys onboard were obviously trying to tweek their boat to keep me from passing, and kept trying to catch up for some time. Later, I caught and passed a Catalina 30, on a broad reach, that was flying a full main and Gennaker. I was flying a full main and hank-on genoa. I was doing 4-5 kts as I caught and passed them. They also made an effort to keep up. Their sail trim looked ok to me. I passed other 24', and 26' macgregors and Hunters with ease.

There's no way my Bristol is as fast as these boats! So, what causes boats that have a much faster rating than mine, to be slower? Could the weight of 2 or 3 more people make the difference?
Clueness is very relative, it would seem that you are not quite as clueless as some others, as clueless are you may be..
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2008
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My boat is slow. On purpose. It's big and fat and heavy and pisses off other boats in the elevator.

However, on certain days, with a certain set of conditions - a stiff chop accompanied by fluky wind and a long swell beneath - the lighter boats experience a degree of 'hobby horsing' that keeps dumping their air and making the sails refill with a violent snap, while my big old hog of a schooner just busts through the chop and rides on the swell.

At the end of the day, I have outdistanced everyone who loves thier boat and her gear and has shortened down to a furled jib and reefed main to protect the rig. Most people will keep sailing in that kind of slop because motoring in it is just asking for a case of the green-gill.
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  #13  
Old 08-31-2008
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I think that the wind was just not strong enough for anyone but dinghys to reach hull speed, so sail area becomes a factor. I frequently pass larger faster boats when the wind is under 10, and I also get passed by slower boats as well. The most frustrating thing is getting passed by a boat only flying a genoa . I am also surpised by the two Cape Dory 25's that sail around here, they are ALWAYS faster than me, they are pretty similar to a Bristol 24. Maybe next year when I have a new main we'll catch them My PHRF is 264.
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2008
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The answer is you need to be racing your boat. Any boat can out sail any other boat on any random day but to do it week after week is different. I have a Catalina 27 and regularly pass other "slower" boats, but that doesn't count. I don't race and realize that if I did I would get my rating handed back to me on a platter... Either you are a better sailor OR you were lucky. The PHRF ratings are well established as a long standing anticipation of a boat’s speed for any given area (PHRFs are different in different areas).
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2008
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Light air or heavy air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eMKay View Post
I think that the wind was just not strong enough for anyone but dinghys to reach hull speed, so sail area becomes a factor. I frequently pass larger faster boats when the wind is under 10, and I also get passed by slower boats as well. The most frustrating thing is getting passed by a boat only flying a genoa . I am also surpised by the two Cape Dory 25's that sail around here, they are ALWAYS faster than me, they are pretty similar to a Bristol 24. Maybe next year when I have a new main we'll catch them My PHRF is 264.
Well, I always thought in the past, that my heavy boat would do better against faster/lighter boats in heavy air. The only time I ever won a club hare and Hound race, was in heavy air. I have never sailed against other boats in the same conditions of light, steady air and heavy chop, as I did yesterday.

Maybe a heavy boat will keep it's headway better than a lighter one in choppy conditions. Or, maybe all the frantic sail adjusting on the other boats just slowed them down. I suppose the next time out, I'll be wondering if I'm dragging my anchor, while getting passed by every boat on the lake.
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Old 08-31-2008
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I've got a '77 Tanzer 22.. Blown out sails that are at least 15 years old, no traveller, not really rigged for racing, but I race her anyways..

I beat the snot out of another T22, a Shark and a T26 in the last race, all skippered by guys who've been doing this for decades (this is my first year racing), made constant gains on them on all three legs of the triangle.. Don't ask me how, sometimes you just have faster days and a faster boat..

My race car driver friend aboard, commented on my shock 'sometimes there's no explanation for what makes on (boat) faster than another .. it shouldn't be, but it just is)

Maybe her name has something to do with it

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  #17  
Old 08-31-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okawbow View Post
So, what causes boats that have a much faster rating than mine, to be slower?
It's usually the person sailing the boat!!!

I often pass boats that are significantly faster than mine but only because I understand lift, sail shape and sail trim and they probably don't. Just two days ago we passed a J Boat, on a dead nuts on beam reach, his sails were flatter than the table top of a CNC milling machine and his genoa was sheeted tight and INSIDE the life lines his main was also sheeted in as tight as could be. Clearly his boat is faster than mine IF there was someone at the helm with a clue....

This summer we dusted the entire fleet in PHRF wed night racing and it's not because we have a faster boat. It's 50% sail trim and 50% tactics. Some boats get the sail trim right but pay no attention tactics and some only pay attention to tactics and forget sail trim..

Sailing fast is more than just owning a fast boat it's knowing how to use what you have..
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