Why are some boats slow? - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-30-2008
okawbow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 220
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 8
okawbow is on a distinguished road
Why are some boats slow?

Today I solo'ed about 25 miles in 5-10 steady wind, on a lake with considerable powerboat chop. I sail a 5800# Bristol 24, full keel, inboard with 2 blade fixed prop. The PHRF is about 282. the thing that was so unusual today, was that I passed just about every boat I came up to. There were at least 100 sailboats out on the lake that is about 8 miles by 2 miles. I passed, on a close reach, a 30 + foot Benetau with full main and roller furling genoa. The guys onboard were obviously trying to tweek their boat to keep me from passing, and kept trying to catch up for some time. Later, I caught and passed a Catalina 30, on a broad reach, that was flying a full main and Gennaker. I was flying a full main and hank-on genoa. I was doing 4-5 kts as I caught and passed them. They also made an effort to keep up. Their sail trim looked ok to me. I passed other 24', and 26' macgregors and Hunters with ease.

There's no way my Bristol is as fast as these boats! So, what causes boats that have a much faster rating than mine, to be slower? Could the weight of 2 or 3 more people make the difference?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 08-30-2008
Stillraining's Avatar
Handsome devil
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LaConner,Washington
Posts: 3,477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough
They wernt running there motors like you were.....


Just kidding....
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 08-30-2008
Ex Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 125
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
ste27 is on a distinguished road
Turn off your engine
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 08-30-2008
nk235's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Long Island
Posts: 404
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 8
nk235 is on a distinguished road
It could have been that the wind was light enough that it enabled your smaller boat to still be carried at 5 knts or so even though it is a heavier full keel...where as the larger boats need more wind to get moving. I know I had a 25' sloop last year and in 5-10mph of breeze I would always out run and pass larger boats. Now I have a much heavier 32' and I need at least 10-15 to get the thing moving 5 knts.
__________________
Morgan 323
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 08-30-2008
okawbow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 220
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 8
okawbow is on a distinguished road
Don't think I haven't thought about doing that But these guys were so close they would hear it. LOL

Not bragging, The guys in my sailing club usually beat me, even with my high PHRF. but 30 footers that can't keep up with an old, slow 24 footer?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 08-30-2008
okawbow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 220
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 8
okawbow is on a distinguished road
What about SA/D?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nk235 View Post
It could have been that the wind was light enough that it enabled your smaller boat to still be carried at 5 knts or so even though it is a heavier full keel...where as the larger boats need more wind to get moving. I know I had a 25' sloop last year and in 5-10mph of breeze I would always out run and pass larger boats. Now I have a much heavier 32' and I need at least 10-15 to get the thing moving 5 knts.

Isn't the sail area to displacement what counts? It seems most bigger boats have a better SA/D than similar shorter boats. Also, aren't longer hulls faster?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 08-30-2008
CalebD's Avatar
Tartan 27' owner
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,503
Thanks: 4
Thanked 83 Times in 76 Posts
Rep Power: 7
CalebD will become famous soon enough
Some boats are slower then others. But a PHRF rating of 282 is pretty darn high if that is at all accurate. I have a Tartan 27' from 1967. It has a partial full keel and is probably similar shaped down below to your Bristol 24'. Our base PHRF rating is 240 which is about the same as an Ensign as well as a Ranger 23' that we sometimes race against (yes, I do race this boat on Weds. night meets).
There are many factors that could explain your good results from your solo sail today. You stated that you were on a reach (broad reach is what you typed) and it may be that your boat had it's sails perfectly balanced for pulling you ahead with minimal need to use the rudder (the rudder is also a brake if overused). If you have jib sheet fair leads then they were set perfectly also. Your boats bottom could be cleaner then the other boats (do you trailer sail or keep her in the water?).
If none of that makes any sense then the Lady of the Lake (el Donna del Lago) was smiling up at you and Aeolus gave you just the perfect wind for your boat.
Sounds like fun and it is possible and happens to us too if rarely.
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 08-30-2008
Stillraining's Avatar
Handsome devil
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: LaConner,Washington
Posts: 3,477
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough Stillraining is a jewel in the rough
It's a phisics thing....which can you blow across the surface of a kiddy pool first a plain old wine bottel cork or an Ice cube with a tooth pick sized sail?.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 08-31-2008
okawbow's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 220
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 8
okawbow is on a distinguished road
PHRF ratings

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalebD View Post
Some boats are slower then others. But a PHRF rating of 282 is pretty darn high if that is at all accurate. I have a Tartan 27' from 1967. It has a partial full keel and is probably similar shaped down below to your Bristol 24'. Our base PHRF rating is 240 which is about the same as an Ensign as well as a Ranger 23' that we sometimes race against (yes, I do race this boat on Weds. night meets).
There are many factors that could explain your good results from your solo sail today. You stated that you were on a reach (broad reach is what you typed) and it may be that your boat had it's sails perfectly balanced for pulling you ahead with minimal need to use the rudder (the rudder is also a brake if overused). If you have jib sheet fair leads then they were set perfectly also. Your boats bottom could be cleaner then the other boats (do you trailer sail or keep her in the water?).
If none of that makes any sense then the Lady of the Lake (el Donna del Lago) was smiling up at you and Aeolus gave you just the perfect wind for your boat.
Sounds like fun and it is possible and happens to us too if rarely.
I looked up the ratings for a Catalina 30, and it is 180. The base rating for the Bristol 24 is 276. (282 with the fixed prop.) Using the base rating; the Catalina should be 96 seconds per mile faster. In about 4 miles, I went from 1/4 mile behind, to 1/4 mile ahead. It seems unlikely that a clean bottom, ( I do dry sail my Bristol) or even minor differences in sail trim could make that much difference. The cat had what looked to be a proper size Gennaker set and drawing well.

I also think the Laborday weekend brought out sailors that maybe don't get out that much. It's kinda nice for once to see the other guy getting frustrated because he getting passed so easily. It's usually me who says, "how can they be moving so good, when we're just sitting here?"
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 08-31-2008
Owner, Green Bay Packers
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SW Michigan
Posts: 10,318
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 11
sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice sailaway21 is just really nice
When I read the title to this thread I knew Catalina's would be involved.
__________________
“Scientists are people who build the Brooklyn Bridge and then buy it.”
Wm. F. Buckley, Jr.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Updated Offshore Cruising Boat List - January 2008 sab30 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 180 03-16-2014 11:29 AM
I'd like to hear from Catalina owners (42mkii esp) RandyBC Boat Review and Purchase Forum 42 07-27-2008 06:01 PM
Request boat comparison information on 4 boats FrankLanger Boat Review and Purchase Forum 16 02-27-2006 01:19 PM
Two-Boat Tuning Dean Brenner Racing Articles 0 03-13-2002 07:00 PM
your 40-42´ bluewater cruiser ldatsailnet Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 02-28-2002 06:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:21 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.