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  #21  
Old 09-04-2008
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Alejandro, if ya know where he moors, you need to pay him a visit and make sure he understands the rules, preferably over a brew in the club. You sail a Merit 25, do ya race it? If not, why not? That's a nice, quick little boat and it's perfect for PHRF.

For you pontificators that didn't like my terms, tough tittie. Folks who race these boats understand ROW and the word rights in context with it's use with regards to sailboats. This ain't the friggin' admiralty or a primer for it. You can bet the J driver understood PERFECTLY well what he did, if he saw the Merit and his ass would've been DQ'd in a race if the flag was thrown. Christ I get tired of the same old people doing the same old nitpickin', on MULTIPLE FORUMS for f%^&*& no less! Give it rest or at least couch your terms.

Last edited by CharlieCobra; 09-04-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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  #22  
Old 09-04-2008
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Charlie, that's a great idea, but if I was to have a beer with everyone that make things like that, I would end at AA,
Or maybe I will start a business, at a shore bar, the first on me, and then everyone pays for the drinks!

I would love to race my Merit, however, where I sail, the sailing community is very closed to One Design, and as far as I know, there are no interest in PHRF races.
I don't know how to start and organize this kind of races, but I will research.
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Valle de Bravo, Mexico
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Flying Tern 14', 1968


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  #23  
Old 09-04-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post

For you pontificators that didn't like my terms, tough tittie. Folks who race these boats understand ROW and the word rights in context with it's use with regards to sailboats. This ain't the friggin' admiralty or a primer for it. You can bet the J driver understood PERFECTLY well what he did, if he saw the Merit and his ass would've been DQ'd in a race if the flag was thrown. Christ I get tired of the same old people doing the same old nitpickin', on MULTIPLE FORUMS for f%^&*& no less! Give it rest or at least couch your terms.
Charlie I'm guessing that jab was thrown at me. I was NOT throwing that at you but rather at the subject line of the original post.

I'm sorry if you don't like my pontificating about proper terms. I've seen too many knuckle heads in sailboats think they have a god given "RIGHT OF WAY" and have caused accidents. Had one last night in the race between two J boats who know the rules and yet still tangled at the start. Yes most everyone who races calls it "I had rights", I do too but many are now accepting and using stand on/give way. In races mostly it's just STARBOARD! We were actually the stadn on vessel in the tangle being on stbd and the leward boat but we gave way well before the collision because the J skippers are cowboys!

The problem is with general cruising. I am trying with my posts to direct folks to open up their minds and direct them away from terms even the USCG deems not suitable. As I ALWAYS state the ultimate rule is to avoid collision..

Charlie you can call it ROW, privileged, or stand on because I know you actually know the COLREGS but the vast majority of boaters, even on this and other forums, don't or barely know a few of them and constantly hearing the term Right of Way carries with it, what I (& the USCG) consider, and have seen to be, a dangerous connotation. The USCG did not post those writings I referenced above for NO reason... Perhaps your beef should be with the USCG? As far as I know most on this board are cruisers and the vast majority of racers are over on SA.

With all this typing I don't even know if an inland lake in Mexico goes by the COLREGS so all this may be totally useless...

So yes, I will keep on the band wagon of stand on, give way and the #1 rule AVOID COLLISIONS. If you have issue with my pontificating so be it and we can always agree to disagree..
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-04-2008 at 05:14 PM.
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  #24  
Old 09-04-2008
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I did spout over a bit on that didn't I? I understand EXACTLY what you're saying and why. I suppose that just hit my funny bone or something. Yep, there's a lot of hacks driving J-boats out there. I reckon ya have the choice to not put yourself in a position to take it to the room or not. It's not like it's gonna cost ya THAT much time on the course. I agree that in cruising situations or situations involving mixed vessel types, i.e. sail and power, the proper terms should be used and I suppose they should be used across the board to avoid confusion, as not everybody races sailboats. Regardless, you and I bump heads on occasion and have for a few years now without rancor so no problems here.

Alenjandro, ya might do a web search on PHRF or other ratings systems used in Mexico like IRC. I'm sure there's some sort of handicapping system available down there. Check with local yacht clubs too.
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  #25  
Old 09-05-2008
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Charlie, regarding PHRF in Mexico the only club that runs compensated times races is the MORC (Mexican Ocean Racing Circuit). They only accept boats larger than 35tf and as the names states, they do ocean races.
In my little lake, there's one ragata a year called "vuelta al lago" (all around the lake), that considers non one design racing among the one class (jy15, j/24, laser, hobby 16, santana 20). The "open class" is for boats ranging from 21 to 32 ft and must have a cabin and a crew minimum of 4. They don´t compensate times so the first who crosses the finish line wins, there's however, a sub category in this class that is spinnaker and non spinnaker.
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  #26  
Old 09-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
Alejandro,
You can bet the J driver understood PERFECTLY well what he did, if he saw the Merit and his ass would've been DQ'd in a race if the flag was thrown. .
So, Charlie, I presume you're suggesting that after determining I'm the privileged/stand-on vessel, the next step is to determine if the burdened/give-way vessel is a hot racing boat. If she is, then I can completely disregard her as her driver will know exactly what to do and when to do to.

Just in case it doesn't work out as planned, how long after the collision do I have to wait to throw the flag?
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  #27  
Old 09-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AE28 View Post
Just in case it doesn't work out as planned, how long after the collision do I have to wait to throw the flag?
LOL, in terms of the AC boats it's immediately following the collision, by both boats!

Seriously; the issue of who is on what tack sometimes gets confused with other navigation rights. Just yesterday we were headed out for a sail and the Moore 24 fleet was headed out from the marina to their race. We were on starboard and windward; but were limited by shallow water to port. A couple of boats in the Moore fleet proceeded to take right-of-way without consideration for our draft and forced their way across our bow. I engaged reverse to slow our boat but really that was the only way to keep their boat from clipping us and for that I am glad that I had left the engine running while sailing under the main.

On our return the Richmond channel the Moore fleet was also headed back (after their race) in and the lead boat who was trying to cross our bow (who was windward) finally asked us if we could dip across his stern. I did; but really, he could have just spilled his sails and let us go by since his jockeying for position was in front of an outbound schooner. I guess they wanted additional bragging rights and the best bar stools.

I think this is the 3'rd time we have had crossing situations with the Moore fleet racers. A few months back we were sailing on port tack to the west of their finish line and had them crossing our bow while to windward without yielding right of way. We had given them plenty of room to finish their race and were just trying to sail to the north of their finish line. We had to heave-to and wait for the boats to disperse.

I find it funny that the racing crowd likes to impose their "rules" on everyone else out there at risk of collision. Guess that's the only way to win a one design race.
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2008
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If you have the motor running, I do believe you lose rights as a sailboat, since you are under power, even if the engine isn't in gear IIRC.
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  #29  
Old 09-08-2008
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Let's not forget that the whistle signals apply to "power driven" vessels, not sail. Exceptions are for overtaking, and the danger signal. Look at Rule 34.
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  #30  
Old 09-08-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieCobra View Post
If you were on Starboard and to Leeward of him, you would have ROW. Starboard has rights over Port and Leeward over Windward.
You have mixed two principles into one --

A boat on starboard always has priority over a boat on port tack.

The windward/leeward rule only comes into play for boats on the same tack.
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