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post #41 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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post #42 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I have a similar question.

In our big labor day race I was involved in a collision (if you can call it that). After rounding the upwind mark, I found myself very close to another boat. Both of us were going downwind but he was slightly ahead of me on the port side. By slightly ahead I mean that his stern was about 2 feet ahead of my stern. The wind was coming from the rear but just slightly to the starboard side. So I was just upwind of him on 2 counts. I was hugging him pretty close to block some of his wind so we were about a foot apart. While giving instruction to his inexperienced crew (his wife) he didn't pay attention to the tiller and came up into me.
No flags were thrown and no paint was swapped. I crew on his other boat during our regular racing series, so I didn't want to throw a flag on him anyway.

Since I was upwind of him, was I obligated to avoid him, or was he at fault for changing course into me?


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post #43 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US27inKS View Post

Since I was upwind of him, was I obligated to avoid him, or was he at fault for changing course into me?

I can't think of any rule that supersedes the windward boat being the give way in that situation.

I don't see an "out" for you covered by rule 13 either..

RULE 13
OVERTAKING
(a)Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules [of Part B, Sections I and II / 4 through 18], any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken.
(b)A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with a another vessel from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, that is, in such a position with reference to the vessel she is overtaking, that at night she would be able to see only the sternlight of that vessel but neither of her sidelights.
(c)When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether she is overtaking another, she shall assume that this is the case and act accordingly.
(d)Any subsequent alteration of the bearing between the two vessels shall not make the overtaking vessel a crossing vessel within the meaning of these Rules or relieve her of the duty of keeping clear of the overtaken vessel until she is finally past and clear.

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post #44 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
I can't think of any rule that supersedes the windward boat being the give way in that situation.

I don't see an "out" for you covered by rule 13 either..
Since this may be a question of overtaking another vessel, let me explain further.

I was on starboard and he was on port tack when approaching the windward mark. I gave him room to tack as we were very near the mark, and we came around the mark abreast of one another, with me slightly ahead of him. His boat was faster downwind than mine and he quickly moved ahead to the position we were in when he hit me.

Does that make him an overtaking vessel and obligated to stay clear of me?


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post #45 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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Your local race rules may provide better guidance in this case. Usually in an overlap, within "X" distance of a mark, the local rules will define which boat (usually the downwind boat) must give way and define the penalty. Otherwise, the general rules would probably find both of you responsible since operating a vessel so close to another would be "unsafe" anywhere off the race course!
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post #46 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US27inKS View Post
Both of us were going downwind but he was slightly ahead of me on the port side. By slightly ahead I mean that his stern was about 2 feet ahead of my stern. The wind was coming from the rear but just slightly to the starboard side. So I was just upwind of him on 2 counts.

Sorry but from the description it really sounded like you were both on stbd. If you were on stbd and he on port and to leeward you were stand on..

That description makes it hard to understand how he was on port that's why I assumed you were both stbd..


I think I'm still confused because you say he passed you? Did he pass you to leeward on stbd or port tack? Did he then slow down and you became the overtaking vessel?

If he theoretically passed you to leeward, and you were both on stbd tack, he was still the leeward boat and the give way vessel...

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-09-2008 at 01:33 PM.
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post #47 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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I think the biggest question is what tack were you on while sailing downwind at the point where your boats touched? If you were DDW on Port and he on Starboard then he was the stand-on vessel; making you the burdened vessel to stay clear. The fact that his boat rounded up a bit while you were blanketing his air seems to confuse the issue because if the round-up had not happened you would not have touched (he did not maintain course and speed); but I think that is secondary since you could have given more room before the collision (as the burdened vessel should). In terms of the nav rules you need to have adequate space to correct for a minor course change of the other boat. If you both were on starboard tack then the same applies since you were windward. Sounds like a case of NASCAR bump-n-grind racing!

I'm sure that there are other interpretations; just thought I'd add YA
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post #48 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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I guess I'm finding it hard to explain. A drawing would be good, but my paint skills suck.

As we approached the mark, I was on starboard and he was on port. I left room for him to tack at the mark and come around the mark alongside but slightly behind me. As we rounded the mark he had the shorter path and was then slightly ahead of me. We maintained this position for about 150 feet, at which point he changed course and hit me.

If it matters, from the time he tacked at the mark until well after he hit me we were both on starboard tack.

This is of course all water under the bridge, but it would be nice to know for the future.


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post #49 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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I'm confused. So who has rights...

1: leeward on a port tack
2: windward on a starboard tack?

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post #50 of 68 Old 09-09-2008
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Could it be argued that since once he tacked we were both on starboard, and he passed me as we rounded the mark, that he was an overtaking vessel and therefore the give way vessel?


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