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nauticalrich 07-30-2002 06:25 AM

SCREWED
 
Going through a broker I was all set to purchase a 1985 Hunter. All that was left was the survey. Concerned about having to pay for the survey and haul out I asked the broker to check with the owner on two things:
Keel material and verification of the hull condition from the owner.
It was stated Lead for the keel and that the hull was in good condition, nothing wrong with it.

Ok so I took a vacation day to have it hauled and surveyed. When it came out of the water the keel was iron of which I found out is what Hunter keels are made of about a day or two prior to the haul out. Ok no big deal. However, on the bottom of the hull to the rear of the keel there was an indent in the plastic around a foot in area. You could push it up with your finger. There was delamination but had to be internal damage to make the hull go inward. The surveyor and I agreed to end it there.
I didn''t purchase the boat, am waiting for my deposit back and am out around $700.00.
Since the boat is out of the water the owner is going to have it repaired. He saved on the haul out thanks to me.

My reason for sharing this experience with the internet is to let you know "don''t trust any one". When buying a boat everyone is protected, the seller the broker but not the buyer.

Screwed and pissed off at my fellow man. I just throught $700.00 and a vacation out the window.

How the hell can you buy a boat safely?

nauticalrich 07-30-2002 06:42 AM

SCREWED
 
Have to reply to my own message. I forgot one important factor.
The owner was aware of that portion of the hull that was dented in. He said when he purchased the boat his surveyor also picked it up. He then supposedly call Hunter and they advised the boat was probably laid on it''s side incorrectly causing the indentation in the hull. How do they know that when the boat was purchased used.
This sounds like BS or Hunter is stupid.

bmcald 07-30-2002 06:53 AM

SCREWED
 
Seems to me that if the owner knew of the problem and didn''t tell you, you could sue in small claims court to get your $700 back.

If you didn''t ask for prior surveys before haul out and your own survey, might be good to do next time around.

Another possibility to save on this expense is to ask the surveyor to do a survey while the boat is in the water. If he nixes it then, you''ve saved the haul out cost. If he OK''s it but for what he can see after a haul out, it may cost a little extra to get the surveyor out a second time, but it seems like it might be worth it. Could also do the sea trial before hauling out--don''t like the way it sails, no haul out, no surveyor.

Good luck--and in my experience, I think you ran into a rare bad apple. The boat owners I''ve encountered while shopping have been open and shared all their documentation, including prior surveys. And for a 1985 Hunter, I think you could do without the broker and the broker''s fee and check out the marinas and classifieds.

928frenzy 07-30-2002 09:57 AM

SCREWED
 
We bought a 1983 Hunter four months ago. Even though we now know that the hull was in good condition and the bottom paint was holding up rather well, we still don''t regret having payed for the full survey including the haul-out. It was about $700, and it was worth every dime just for the peace of mind.

BTW, based on the way the market has been going, it was the best investment we made all year. ;^)

~ Happy sails to you. ~ _/) ~

nauticalrich 07-30-2002 10:31 AM

SCREWED
 
Thanks for the inputs. I am not against the survey or the surveyor. They did their job.
He found moisture above decks, no delamination and said that is normal on older boats. I am complaining and pissed off at the owner for not admitting the very obvious and serious defect in the hull. It is very visible to the naked eye when hauled out and they admitted they knew about it.
They are just plain liers and now they have to repair it anyway. The extent of the damage is to chancy for me. There were also voids in the rudder.
Something was definately wrong with this hull.

JeffC_ 08-24-2002 04:59 PM

SCREWED
 
Rich,
Though I understand that the seller now has the windfall of a free haul-out, if you just look at your side of the equation, that $700 did just what it was designed to do: protect you from buying a huge problem. That''s why buyers use surveyors. I''d take some consolation in the fact that you were smart enough to comission a survey in the first place. Many erstwhile buyers don''t, and then rue the day they ever wanted to own a boat.

Even if the seller knew about the damage (from a previous survey), you were still protected. Without the survey, he would not have hesitated to conceal this information from you as he took your check to the bank.

I never thought to ask about previous surveys, but that sounds like a wonderful idea. How would you find out if a boat had been surveyed previously, and who had done it, if the seller were less than forthcoming?

MaryBeth 08-25-2002 07:04 PM

SCREWED
 
Sorry, a dent in the "plastic"?????

I thought they were fiberglass, not plastic, even Hunters.

How the Hell can you buy a boat safely - maybe knowing what you''re dealing with and being willing to pay for the surveys of those boats you''re interested in is a great start.

Plastic?

MaryBeth

SailorMitch 08-25-2002 07:42 PM

SCREWED
 
Yes, plastic. It''s the plastic resin that holds the fiberglass together. Thus the letters "FRP" you see at times, meaning fiberglass reinforced plastic. Thus also the term "Classic Plastic" you see in some sailing magazines.

The term "plastic" has come to cover a lot of ground of course. But it''s accurate to refer to fiberglass boats as "plastic" despite the negative connotation to some.

For anyone interested in a good read this winter, get Dan Spurr''s book "Heart of Glass", which is a history of the fiberglass boat. It''s good stuff.

Sailormon6 08-26-2002 06:12 AM

SCREWED
 
Nauticalrich: You said: “It was stated…that the hull was in good condition, nothing wrong with it.”

If you can prove that the seller made that representation to you, knowing that you would change your position in reliance on that statement (i.e. spend money for the haulout and for the survey), and that, but for his false representation, you would not have spent that money, then you have a basis for a lawsuit. This is especially so in view of the fact that he profited by his false statement. (It saved him the cost of hauling the boat for repair.) Your state probably has a small claims court, where you can sue him for a relatively small amount without an attorney, and using very simple procedures.

nauticalrich 08-26-2002 06:17 AM

SCREWED
 
MarBeth, Sorry for using the word dent. Of course fiberglass does not dent. It is an indentation in the hull. What would cause this I don''t know. What would one call this kind of defect?

In the future I am going to try to get the seller to put up the monies for the survey and reimburse the seller if the boat passes. Whether they do this or not will
depend on how much they want to sell the boat.


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