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  #1241  
Old 04-13-2009
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LOL, that's an American metal band called Lamb of God. Pretty bad ass instrumental IMO.
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  #1242  
Old 04-13-2009
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That music is just bad, but the video is great!
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  #1243  
Old 04-13-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP777 View Post
LOL, that's an American metal band called Lamb of God. Pretty bad ass instrumental IMO.
The drums rock. I'm a drummer. I know rock. Nice C25 BTW.
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  #1244  
Old 04-14-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Chall - I just got all teary-eyed. That's beautiful man! BTW - your jib knot is a disgrace. And your mainsheet needs a freakin' shave.
LOL Smack. The Mainsheet was replaced 3 days after this, it now looks beautiful

Mr Wuffles, good spot on the winch handle, we were fully crewed during this and their was actually someone trimming the headsail, who isn't in that pic.
My winch handles are also of course the lock in kind

We do also have an onboard policy that states that whoever loses a winch handle overboard, owes the crew a round of beers, and has also volunteered themselves to jump in the water and clean the hull before the next race

Mr Wuffles of course if no one has dropped a winch handle in the drink, then the youngest on the crew is normally 'volunteered' for hull cleaning duty
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Last edited by chall03; 04-14-2009 at 12:18 AM.
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  #1245  
Old 04-14-2009
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LOL Smack. The Mainsheet was replaced 3 days after this, it now looks beautiful
Heh-heh. No worries mate. I'm still bitter after the whole mainsail beatdown I took. Animals.
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  #1246  
Old 04-14-2009
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Okay - we've got another shy BFSer. So I'll do the heavy lifting here. Welcome to the hallowed halls of big freakin' sails Sandusky!

Part One:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
Having survived a 3 day storm in the Atlantic 5 years ago this week, I have some definite ideas regarding suitable blue water offshore boats. Granted, the sustained winds never exceeded 58 knots, the seas were the big problem. Fortunately the 55' aluminum purpose built boat I was on had a pilot house. Standing watches every 8 hours for 3 days in that sea state would have been physically impossible. Sitting in a gimballed chair for 4 hours and 4 hours in a pilot house sea berth was taxing enough. It is hard to accurately describe the violent motion that 25 foot breaking and confused seas make. You are constantly bracing yourself which inevitably becomes very tiring. Common tasks like making a sandwich take about 10 times as long and are tiring. The sheer power of waves, crashing over the pilothouse on occasion, was unbelievable. I never once thought the boat wasn't going to make it although we were occasionally were concerned about the hull tripping as we slid down a wave on our side.

In comparison, a friends Ericson 46 left St. Thomas a couple of days behind us, hit the storm for 1/2 a day, veered off towards Bermuda and limped in to Hampton Roads a week later than us. Their boat was obviously sturdy and well built for a production boat. Unfortunately it really couldn't handle those conditions for long. The boat was a total writeoff at the dock. The crew injuries included a broken arm and fractured ribs. The cabin sole had broken loose, the nav station had broken from its tabs and every bulkhead was broken. Yikes!

The main problem is that people on this board have varying opinions of blue water capable. I'd venture to say that most haven't been out in a sustained storme in the Atlantic. Some think they will be ok with the right equipment, some think it is heavy displacement, and others foolishly think that if a sister production boat has made offshore passages then they are good to go. Heck I believed some of these things too until I was caught in it 350 miles offshore.

Bottom line is that it is a combination things. If your boat can't withstand drops off 25 foot waves then I wouldn't venture to far into the Atlantic in spring. The key is to have good planning, good communication and no timetable. Having to get somewhere is the major reason for a lot of mistakes.

Of course if all you are doing is going to the Bahamas and island hopping south then any decent production boat is ok so long as your plan your trip right.

Part Two:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
Valiente, you and I are on the same page on this one. When planning our trip the weather forecast was pretty good for the 1200 miles. We were taking a route directly from St. Thomas to a point about 100 miles east of Cape Hatteras and then to the Chesapeake. We made several mistakes. One, we made the trip the first week of April which is about 3 weeks too early. 3 low pressure systems came off the east coast and unexpectedly formed into a monster storm which rotated the wind to the southeast while we were 350miles off St. Augustine. Next big mistake was to ignore weather advice of our weather router. He warned us to turn southwest and head for south Florida and not to sail north of the 29th parallel. Our skipper decided to go against the advice and trust a forecast we had for our Maxsea nav software provider. (daily gribs by modem that overlayed our electronic charts). Unbeknown to us, our skipper had a time constraint which influenced his decision. Next we were going with the storm which meant we experienced the storm for 3 days. Although heaving to or beating into 25ft waves really didn't look like a great option, we would have been in the storm for a shorter period of time. 25 ft waves are doable but not when they are confused, steep, and breaking. Unbelievable power in those waves.

The things we did right. We were 3 reasonably fit men with a fair amount of experience, mechanical expertise and sea miles. Not the place for the wife and kids. We had a proper boat, although designed by the owner (architect), it was professionally built by a quality boat manufacturer Hike Metal Products Ltd. and the design was reviewed by a naval architect and engineering firm. The boat was fast with a hull speed of over 10 knots and it was very stiff. We maintained a constant watch system and made every effort to conserve our energy. Sleeping was near impossible even with lee cloths, pillows, and numerous life jackets as we tried to wedge into our berths. We maintained communication with our SSB and Satphone which at times was reassuring. Because we had a proper pilothouse we were never cold or wet which would have contributed greatly to fatigue. We had 2 underdeck hydraulic autopilots. Both pilots had electronic rudder sensors and we could manually adjust the yaw rates. The engine and battery compartments were completely watertight and designed to survive a rollover. For the record, the boat was an aluminum 55 foot pilothouse (53' waterline) that weighed 32,000# all up, 10.5' lifting keel with a 12,500 bulb on the bottom of it. The engine was a 110hp turbo diesel laser aligned and bolted between the 2 longitudinal stringers that ran the length of the boat. The mast, hydraulic lifting keel and engine was secured to the stringers. The construction also included ring frames that provided transverse support.The boat was constructed with a forward watertight crash compartment, accessible only by deck hatch which is where stored spare sails, lines, etc. The were also 2 watertight bulkheads with gasketed doors. We carried 320 gallons a fuel in 4 tanks that were centrally controlled. The tanks could be pumped from one to another with either the electric or manual pumps. For electronics, we had full instrumentation, 36 mile Radar, SSB, SSB fax/modem, Satphone, 3 cell phones, DSC VHF radio, Electronic Navigation software on laptop in Nav Station, Epirb in main cabin, second Epirp with liferaft, Offshore liferaft with full provisions and crash bag.

Essentially we were prepared for just about anything and the preparedness saved our bacon. I would imagine if you bought a custom French alloy cruiser equipped the same as this boat you are looking at 750-900K to get an equivalent boat. The owner did a lot the interior work himself, supervised construction, and diligently sourced the components using a rig off a Frers 45 that had been destroyed in a fire (rig not on boat). He reinforced the rig, designed new spreaders that had a wider sheeting base and basically made the rig pretty stout. With all of that I would estimate that he had in excess of 275K in the boat when finished.

The point of all this is: This is the reality of what a true offshore boat costs. From my experience, production boats are not built that way nor should they be. Most boats are perfectly fine for taking to the Carribean or doing reasonable distance offshore in weather seasons and areas where severe storms are extremely rare. Yes, you can go around the world in a Catalina 27 but you have to be both lucky and skilled in your planning, boat preparation, and seamanship. People have done it and others have failed miserably. It is your risk albeit a big one. Through unpredicted or unforeseen circumstances if you are caught out in a big storm in an area where seas get rough you can have a very unfortunate outcome without the proper equipment.

Part Three:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
Valiente, you might notice the decision to go into the storm was made for the wrong reasons. Even if we had turned around we still would have experienced some of the storm (probably a half a day). The owner has sworn never to do that again. I agree that most of the time you can avoid situations like this but there is always a chance that something happens that the forecast doesn't expect.

Some notes about the pilothouse. The starboard side has a pilot berth with lee cloth. Very comfy and just long enough to lay down in. The port side had a nav station with controls and electronics. It also had a gimballed leather seat out of a Porsche 911 that was sweet. You could lock the chair at an angle which really helped when the boat was bouncing around. The other thing of note were the pilothouse windows. The forward window had a hatch in it and was lexan. The side windows were 3/4" tempered glass. Plexiglass is too flexible and would have blown out with the first big wave. Lexan is tinted and is difficult to see out of on a dark night so not an option for all of the windows.

The 10-1/2 deep keel bulb was great for stability. The boat empty was about 28,000 with about 4,000# of fuel,water, stores, sails, rig etc. The hull shape was not flat but more a V shape A motor driven hydraulic pump lifted the keel to 6-1/2' when motoring into the dock. As far as I know, this might be the only sailboat ever built by Hike. The workmanship and quality were first rate. As I said in a previous post, I never doubted that the boat would be fine. Aluminum for a boat this size is a great choice.
Part Four:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanduskysailor View Post
Smack Daddy, I've got a better story from the same trip. After weathering the storm we had a brilliant day and a half sailing across a now tranquil Gulfstream and around a very quiet Cape Hatteras. We are making between 8 and 10 knots with our Asymmetrical spinnaker. The temperatures are moderate as I comfortably snooze in one of the mid berths. About 2:00 in the morning I am awakened by yelling from the 2 on watch in the pilothouse. As I scramble out of my cozy berth I slip on a thin patch of ice formed by spray around the mast as the temperature has dropped 25 degrees.

I can tell by the anxious and loud yelling that there must be something seriously wrong. I throw my vest on and head up to the pilothouse. We are now motoring into a headwind as the wind has shifted from the southeast to NNW. The 2 other crew excitedly point at the radar screen which shows an enormous blip 4 miles from us. It is obvious it is a very big ship, either an aircraft carrier(we are heading towards Norfolk) or a car carrier. The blip is circling our vessel every 45 seconds!! This is really freaking us out since what could be that big and that fast. We immediately rule out aircraft or helicopters. We have just sailed about 950 miles through the Devils Triangle. Nah, I don't believe in that stuff. The blip continues to make a constant circle around us on the screen. Could this be some secret government weapon? My half awake brain was really racing now. What the heck could be that big and circle in an 8 mile diameter every 45 seconds???

Eventually, one of the crew points to the not too trusty KVH sailcomp which has a very dim and flickering display. The heading display is rapidly moving from 0 to 355 and then starting again. The light bulb goes on, there is a big ship out there alright and it is our boat that is going in a fairly tight circle. The primary autopilot has broken and is steering very steadily in a circle. On a moonless, starless night, we really don't have a horizon to focus on so in our fatigued state we don't realize our situation. Immediately we disengage the primary autopilot and switch on the backup which works like a champ. We spend the next 2 watches laughing about how stupid we are.

In the morning the owner/designer climbs into the aft "garage" to survey the damage. The stainless screws in the autopilot bracket had stripped out from the loads during the storm causing the bracket to flop around and wedge in one position. A quick drill, tap and larger bolts and we are good to go with the primary autopilot again.

One of the few times when I have gone from adrenalin pumping terror to uncontrolled laughter on a boat.
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  #1247  
Old 04-14-2009
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Damn. 58 knots would upset me.
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  #1248  
Old 04-14-2009
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sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Umm... considering the lousy shape your mainsail had, you kind of deserved the beat down...it was meant to further educate you as to the proper sail form for BFS....

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Heh-heh. No worries mate. I'm still bitter after the whole mainsail beatdown I took. Animals.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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StillóDON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
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  #1249  
Old 04-14-2009
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Heh-heh. Yeah - you're right Dog. Thanks for helping a brother out.

BTW - have you implemented those "heavy weather" safety procedures I ran you through based on your shocking video? If you're going to BFS with the big boys - you gotta work on that, dude. Still makes me shudder to think what could have happened!

Last edited by smackdaddy; 04-14-2009 at 05:38 PM.
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  #1250  
Old 04-14-2009
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BFS Safety procedures on a Multi??

Like be careful not to fill your Champagne glass right to the very top in case there is momentarily 3 degrees of Heel as you hit 15 knots?
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