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  #1981  
Old 09-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxboatspeed View Post
Smackdaddy,

sounds exciting. I don't know about Texas Tornados. PFDs - good. I'd think your kids know enough to keep safe. My thought is that they can decide where to be? Avoiding panic is important. It's clear you get that.
Thanks for sharing your stories.
The reason for my reply is this:

There is a common misconception that "sailboats have the right of way."
Yes, all boaters should read the "Rules of the Road" (Navigation rules).
No where in these rules is the phrase "right of way."
"Stand-on vessel" and "Give-way vessel" (rules 16,17) are terms used.
It's important to know the meaning.
Rule 2b comes to mind
Rule 9b probably did not apply, but might be what the dumbarse was talking about.

Rule 18a does not mean that sailboats have a "right of way."

I don't really know exactly what the deal was with this "party barge" and it's likely he is a bone head (after all, it's Texas). I do know that niether one of you had the "right of way."
it ain't that simple.

Yep - reading the "rules of the road" is a good idea.
Safe sailing
Max
Now maxi, don't go getting all semantic on me. First, Bonehead obviously didn't understand the NavRules anyway - so it really wouldn't have mattered whether I said "right of way" or "stand-on" - it simply sounded like "biosimplistic protoplasmation" to him. And big words just make him mad...and vaguely hungry.

Second, the terms mean the same thing. Where the actual NR terms to which you refer describe the responsibility the vessels have, "right of way" describes the condition under which those responsibilities and resultant actions occur and is perfectly valid as well. For example, my condition as a sailboat under sail gives me the right of way (in relation to power driven vessels), which designates me as the "stand-on" vessel and him as the "give-way" vessel (the responsibilities). But the language is not that cut and dried. To wit, your 18a:

Quote:
Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
(i) a vessel not under command;
(ii) a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
(iii) a vessel engaged in fishing; and
(iv) a sailing vessel.
See how "Give Way" (responsibility) is replaced by "Keep out of the way of" (action)? The way I read it, a sailboat does indeed have the inherent "right of way" (the condition) since the power-driven vessel (with give-way responsibility) is told to "stay out of its way" (the action) with few exceptions. Semantics, dude.

I mean, which would have been easier to yell at a passing party barger throwing you the stink finger?

"Read the Rules of the Road you freakin' bonehead, sailboats have the right way when under sail!"

-or-

"Pardon me sir, but may I direct your attention to Navigation Rules 16, 17, and 18, which clearly designate my bad-ass C27 as the 'stand-on' vessel, and your goofy-ass PB45 as the 'give-way' vessel...thereby, making it incumbent on you to avoid running me down. Furthermore, I would like to extend my sympathy for the palsy that has obviously crippled four digits of your right hand. Good day sir."

I chose the first option - and was actually right on the mark.

Furthermore, let me respectfully point out the error of your above statement...

Quote:
No where in these rules is the phrase "right of way."
...by pointing you to rules 9a and 14d and Annex Vß88.12. "Right of way" all over the place!

So even my splendid Navigation Rules semantics were spot on! And if you want to get super picky, how about this doozey?

Quote:
Yes, all boaters should read the "Rules of the Road"
Do you sail on a road? I don't - but maybe that's just Texas.

But I digress...let's continue the rules evaluation and how Bonehead f'ed up in every conceivable way...

Let's start with 2b that you mention above:

Quote:
In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be
had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special
circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which
may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid
immediate danger.
The only limitation on that vessel was its Neanderthal skipper and his complete inability to focus on anything that isn't shiny or warm.

Result: NEANDERFAIL.

Okay, how about 9a?

Quote:
(a) (i) A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or
fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or
fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.
(ii) Notwithstanding paragraph (a)(i) and Rule 14(a), a powerdriven
vessel operating in narrow channels or fairways on the Great
Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and
proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the rightof-
way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner and
place of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals
prescribed by rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel proceeding
upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit safe
passing.
Okay, a little more interesting. Since Lake Travis is actually part of the Colorado River, Bonehead could possibly try to shoot down 18a by trying to throw this in my face. However, as I mentioned, I was actually the one in the narrow channel as I was entering our marina and only 50' or so from the no-wake buoys. His course was hugging the cliffs (I assume to avoid the waves I kicked up by said tornado). He had miles of lake to port, cliffs to starboard, and my own bad self dead ahead. Furthermore, I was the downbound vessel with the current behind me...clearly giving me the "right of way".

Result: NEANDERFAIL.

So, as you point out, maybe he was banking on good, old 9b as indicated by his profane shouting:

Quote:
(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall
not impede the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only
within a narrow channel or fairway.
Of course, as already shown, this is a huge freakin' eye roll. I was entering the narrow passage - not him. He had the whole freakin' lake to his left. And, anyway, it's a party barge, not an ore carrier. Once again...

Result: NEANDERFAIL.

Finally, as to the "bonehead" moniker...it's simply a means of pointing out the trait of physiognomy evident in really stupid people, both in Texas and Manhattan, as shown in this photo of a derivatives trader who used to work for Bear Sterns and bears a striking resemblance to the Party Barger...


(Note the copious amount of bone.)
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 09-21-2010 at 10:19 AM.
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  #1982  
Old 09-21-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Now maxi, blah, blah...

...blah, blah

(Note the copious amount of bone.)
That's what she said.
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  #1983  
Old 09-21-2010
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Originally Posted by AboardIndigo View Post
That's what she said.
Now that's funny!
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  #1984  
Old 09-22-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post


"No Daddy! PLEASE don't make me go back down into the mines! I promise not to call you SailingDog again!"
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  #1985  
Old 09-22-2010
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"No Daddy! PLEASE don't make me go back down into the mines! I promise not to call you SailingDog again!"
Heh-heh. They KNOW not to cross that line...he's the "Voldemort" of Smackburg.

As a matter of fact, here is the vision that haunts them:


(Found via Googling "Sailingdog")

Which is why they retreated to the mines in the first place.
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  #1986  
Old 09-23-2010
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Smackdad,

cool. I gotcha going. Your comments show that you care?
It's not "semantics". If you want to discuss it - cool.

I guess you care to talk "rules"? Sounds good to me. I'm guessin there is a thread, other then BFS, to do it? Let me know.

I don't mean to say you are wrong. I do want to discuss the rules, concepts, blahblah, that could be important to "newbies" reading this stuff.

Anyway, thanks for considering everything I posted. Lots of consideration, quotes, and thought in your reply!
Still, I have a valid point worth discussing.
The rules are complex.
Each phase (give-way, stand-on, stay out of the way of, overtaking, right of way, blahblah) has very specific meaning. If you care, we can discuss it.
I believe you know what you're doing and some jackarse cut you off(?).
Anyway, there's a bunch of stuff that got me goin.
By the way, I'm right and your wrong! Ha. I'll explain if you care.
Maxi
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  #1987  
Old 09-23-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxboatspeed View Post
Smackdad,

cool. I gotcha going. Your comments show that you care?
It's not "semantics". If you want to discuss it - cool.

I guess you care to talk "rules"? Sounds good to me. I'm guessin there is a thread, other then BFS, to do it? Let me know.

I don't mean to say you are wrong. I do want to discuss the rules, concepts, blahblah, that could be important to "newbies" reading this stuff.

Anyway, thanks for considering everything I posted. Lots of consideration, quotes, and thought in your reply!
Still, I have a valid point worth discussing.
The rules are complex.
Each phase (give-way, stand-on, stay out of the way of, overtaking, right of way, blahblah) has very specific meaning. If you care, we can discuss it.
I believe you know what you're doing and some jackarse cut you off(?).
Anyway, there's a bunch of stuff that got me goin.
By the way, I'm right and your wrong! Ha. I'll explain if you care.
Maxi
Max, feel free to throw down on me in this thread. BFS is not just about telling the world about your insanely cool sailing adventures - it's about discussing them and learning from them as well.

Anyway, this is the most-read sailing thread on SN, so newbs will definitely be reading it.

So rip me a new one, dude!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxboatspeed View Post
Smackdad,

The rules are complex.

Maxi
IMHO, the rules are pretty straight forward and relatively simple. Chapman's, etc... loads of well diagramed right of way and stand on examples as well as proper signals, etc... Lot's of small pocket guides around too for an 'on boat' reference for moments of doubt or a bet to win.
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  #1989  
Old 09-23-2010
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Nice job Smack. C'mon, did ya really expect a party barge driver on Lake friggin' Travis to have a clue about right of way? Do yourself a favor and automatically assume every other boater's a total moron unless proven otherwise while you're on the water. It'll keep ya outta trouble.
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  #1990  
Old 09-23-2010
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Nice job Smack. C'mon, did ya really expect a party barge driver on Lake friggin' Travis to have a clue about right of way? Do yourself a favor and automatically assume every other boater's a total moron unless proven otherwise while you're on the water. It'll keep ya outta trouble.
CC - how do you always see right through my BS? It's amazing.

Okay, full truth be told, it was as much my fault as Bonehead's. Why? I'd let my guard down. The winds were very light at this point (after the squall had blown through) and we were just entering the marina channel as I said, so we were really focused on the sail, the rocks and the buoys as we were tacking back and forth to get past the breakwater. And after the big battle earlier, there were virtually no other boats on the lake. So, we thought we were home free and just relaxed.

I never saw (or heard) Bonehead until we'd tacked back to starboard. And here's the true confession: there were 4 adults in the cockpit at the time. 4 sets of eyes and ears. And we missed it. The ladies were blathering about 5.7 Hemi carb kits, and my buddy and I were working the boat and watching the depth...none of us keeping a proper watch around us. We'd let our guard down. We had the right of way...right? So, though it's really a lot of fun to hammer Bonehead (with justification from the NRs) - I have to admit I screwed up...just a teeny-tiny bit.

What was really sobering though was looking up at this huge vessel bearing down on us and not seeing anyone at the helm...just the dude on the lower deck at the bow staring at us. There was literally no way we could have gotten out of his way in time. The winds were too light to sail away, the motor was obviously not started - we were completely helpless. And that was a very, very bad feeling...despite my justified "right of way".

So, at the end of the day, you're right. Rules schmules. You just have to stay frosty and keep the hell out of their way. Lesson learned.

(PS - I didn't let him in on any of this as I was screaming at him and calling him a freakin' Bonehead. So let's just keep it between us sailors.)
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 09-23-2010 at 09:17 AM.
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