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  #2021  
Old 10-11-2010
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smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
On the whole "old shoe" thing, I have no idea what he'd call your boat. It's always seemed to be a fairly ill-defined (and somewhat silly) debate anyway, as shown even in that thread.

I don't think you can ever really make categorical statements on boats. The exception is yours below...that most all boats will far outlast its crew in heavy weather. That seems to be proven time and again. And that alone should make people a little more comfortable when considering picking up the greatest pastime in the world.

Regardless, it sounds like one sweet BFS. See? Every sailor likes to brag! It's just in our DNA!

Here's to you Giu!

Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post
Hey Smackman,
How goes it?

Do you think Giu would say I sail ' an old shoe'? If so, then I believe I could be qualified enough to have a decent discussion with him about heavy weather sailing. I agree with pretty much of his conclusions, but not all. I think the other boats in his group quit because of their crew's attitude, not the boat limitations.

I agree 100% that you have to be fast and slow is dangerous. This means you have to work the sails to keep your hull speed up. This statement means getting out in it and reefing/ popping reefs, changing sails, adding inner jibs etc etc. Many 'old shoes' are just slow, under powered, ketches or small motor. However, many 'bendy toys' have a piddly engine as well and cannot keep up against wind.

However, a hull shape designed solely to pack more charter people in, may go to windwards, albeit with a significant heel, but both a fast or slow downwind run can be really dangerous unless you have an experienced person on the helm.

Dramamine's side effects are well known. Sailing near a cape will cause swells to 'bounce back', changing the sea pattern. This may induce nausea.

The bottom line, is that is is essential to get where your'e headed, it is immensly satisfying to get there first, so Giu - Salute'
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  #2022  
Old 10-11-2010
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I edited it and added some Smacker. Its when you are caught out - forecast not holding up etc or you have no choice but o get to point B! Never out in it in bad stuff by choice. Giu's right that those who brag are just full of BS and if you explore it, they back off.

Usually, the loudest at bragging are crew [on a racer ], whose task is solely to be the windward weight. The skip and helm often dont put down challenges unless they are confident they can pull it off.
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  #2023  
Old 10-11-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St Anna View Post

For credibility, here is a copy of our closest Cape's weather.45-50kn SE'ers For the record, yes, I have been out in that location and weather and yes we sail, not motor. The 'water' was 3-5m on a 3-5m swell. So 6-10m of water and up to 57kn true. The swells were far enough apart. I would not wish to be in a multihull and I would not want to be caught out in that in anything but my current boat! Earlier this year, there were calls for assistance because of 'crew failure' in similar conditions. Both were from yachts similar to modern, large bummed, bolt on keeled, bendy toy types. Apart from a Roberts ketch, we were the only other 'idiots' out in that weather. The Roberts motored, horribly. We were not having a G&T time of it, but we were confident in our boat and our ability to keep on to where we were headed.

10/03:28pm17.9SSE45551017.7-3.8-------
10/03:00pm18.0SSE43511018.3-3.6-------
10/02:30pm17.6SSE47551017.9-3.6-------
10/02:22pm17.8SSE47571018.1-3.6-------
10/02:00pm17.4SSE48571017.9
Holy crap! That is some seriously scary stuff. I've been in 50 knots once - in a squall while still at the slip. The wind alone scared the pants off me. Take the slip away, add mountains of water to that...I'd be crying like a school girl...regardless of the boat.
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  #2024  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Holy crap! That is some seriously scary stuff. I've been in 50 knots once - in a squall while still at the slip. The wind alone scared the pants off me. Take the slip away, add mountains of water to that...I'd be crying like a school girl...regardless of the boat.

We were in a 46', not 27' and; No you would keep it together if you had to, just like the rest of us! I would be out of my comfort zone lead climbing anything I couldn't see over! After all, your married with kids. You can handle pain! Just please keep your dacks on!! Thats the scary comment.
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  #2025  
Old 10-12-2010
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Smackster - thanks!

Ok - I hit the link. Great story (BFS). It got me going again. Thanks!

Sooo.....
Good story. I have the utmost respect for this guy, his handling of stuff, his knowledgable opinion, and more. I love the story and detail.

It makes me want to comment 'cause it's a good story.
Simply:
I like that the guy is making a statement (backed up) about his thoughts re: saiboat design, how he has changed his thoughts because he saw new stuff.

Sailboats
Fast is good
Built to handle whatever you're gonna get into is good
Big engines can be cool.

Fast vs heavy(and other related ideas): great topic.
What is the boat for a person. Why.....

Lots of different ideas on what works best!!
Too much to consider here.
Anyway, good bfs.
Oh ya - Im thinking this:
A big part of sailing is getting.. Uh, that sometimes snit sucks.
Seasickiness can really suck.
Really.

Dramamine (or similar, to my knowledge) helps to avoid seasickness. Yep, makes ya tired. Doesn't work well to take it after ya wanna puke.

Cool story. I love the stories of guys pushin their limits.

Safe sailing
Max
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  #2026  
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Here's more:
if ya wanna "get to where you're headed" by a certain time - here are obvious ideas:
Take a different form of transportation
or
Learn more about planning your trip - wx, route info, crew info, boat characteristics, blahblah
Accept wx delays.

Gimme more BFS
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  #2027  
Old 10-12-2010
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ST Anna, One question, why the assumption you wouldn't want to be in a multihull. Alot of research show them to be more capable in heavy winds/conditions. I currently own a 35' catamaran which replaced a 34' monohull. I take my cat out in conditions much rougher than I ever would have dared to do in the monohull, even with the wife and kids. I can only imagine their reaction to the heel and spray in 25kt winds on the old boat with that famous Long Island Sound chop!!!!
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  #2028  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinsdad View Post
ST Anna, One question, why the assumption you wouldn't want to be in a multihull. Alot of research show them to be more capable in heavy winds/conditions. I currently own a 35' catamaran which replaced a 34' monohull. I take my cat out in conditions much rougher than I ever would have dared to do in the monohull, even with the wife and kids. I can only imagine their reaction to the heel and spray in 25kt winds on the old boat with that famous Long Island Sound chop!!!!
Hi Twinsdad, how are things going?

Yeah, just an assumption, based on a single previous experience. On a 42' cat, I've been in about 30-35kn, and about 2-3m seas. It was scary as the wavelength of the seas seemed to be about the same as the beam and the lenght of the cat. Even the owner was concerned and he had done some miles in her.

The motion was what I would describe as like 'walking', with the leeward hull trying to catch up into the swell.

So, this stuff was worse and we just plowed through, on a heel. Boat was fine and so were we. The boat has been through worse before I got her.

Could you point me to the research, because I have an open mind, but am skeptical. I once owned a calypso cat (like a hobie but of course better, faster etc etc ) I have thrown it around a real lot in windy and choppy conditions, through surf and things like that.

On your cat in rough weather, do you have to work the rudders or can you just let the autopilot do all the work?
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  #2029  
Old 10-14-2010
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Big Cats are cool

Yep. 40' (12M) modern cats rock!
I'm actually on the pro-cat side (kinda) this time.
Most (ya, I know) modern cruising cats are... Uh.. Capable of handling stuff. So.... This stuff includes a bunch about design and building advancement.
A well built modern cruising cat can take lots of slammin. Same as a good cruising mono.
So anyway a good 40' cruising cat can survive major snit. Talking about seas (water), swells, frequency, etc is... A thing worth considering.
10-16' swell is not gonna kill ya (3-5m)
10-16' seas (water?), on top? Well, if it's real, it's real bad. Did I read it wrong? You're saying 10m(30+ft) breakers? Your obs? It happens.
Still, even if you get in the wrong place, at the wrong time, you're good. Unless ya flip it.
I've learned you're still gonna be fine, flipped, cause cats don't sink. I learned that right here. I think there's been reliable studies, articles, adds, and stuff.
lots of guys say lots of stuff. I like reading it, even if most of it's bull.
Safe sailing,
Max
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Hi St Anna,

Things are good here, except sailing season is over. ): I will get some specific info for you on the research, but from short personal experience you can use the autopilot in the conditions I've been in. I have read that the autopilots work until real nasty weather. Has to do with the greater propensity of a cat to stick to more of a straight course, and the effect of twin rudders. Will come back to you on the research, but I don't want to make this a cat vs mono thing since I like sailing both.
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