SailNet Community banner
  • SailNet is a forum community dedicated to Sailing enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about sailing, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, repairs, reviews, maintenance, and more!

Big Freakin' Sails

593K views 3K replies 293 participants last post by  smackdaddy 
#1 ·
Okay - this thread is for people that ACTUALLY LIKE Big Freakin' Sails (note for morons: the verb, not the noun). BFS simply means sailing that pushes limits - whatever those limits may be. And herein lies the rub...and the reason I need to explain a couple of things so people don't start foaming at the mouth right off the bat.

There has been a tremendous amount of hubbub over this "philosophy" in another thread - but that thread apparently "came with a lot of baggage" - to the point that the topic itself got lost in the fog of war. So, this is an attempt to start cleanly.

It must be understood that the love for the adventure and excitement of hard sailing is just as valid and robust in the newbie as it is in the big-sailing old salt. The gap between the two is experience and knowledge. And the goal here is not to fill that gap by quashing the spirit of adventure and excitement with a deluge of cynicism and technicality - but to help us all learn, if and when the time comes, how to better handle that moment when mother nature starts rising beyond our sailing abilities. Because if you keep sailing - it will happen, period. And as you'll see, it can get very frightening very quickly.

For an old salt, these limits will obviously be worlds beyond those of the typical newbie. That old salt will probably snicker at the point at which the newbie becomes terrified - understandably so. Yet, there will inevitably be an even more seasoned salt that will, in turn, snicker at the snickerer when he/she soils his/her own breeches in a blow. It's all subjective and un-ownable.

Therefore, the BFS factor of a newbie experiencing a hard heel and wayward helm for the very first time is just as exciting, important, and valuable (in BFS terms) as the old salt battling a 50 knot gale. It's just about the attitude with which the exploit is approached and remembered - and taken into account as they go back out for more. There are great stories and valuable lessons in both experiences - as well as great opportunities for good hearted slams on the brave posters (which is valuable as well). That's BFS.

So, to be clear this thread is JUST AS MUCH FOR THE SAILING NEWBIE (of which I am one) as it is for the old salt. It's a place to tell your story, listen to others', learn some lessons, and discuss the merits or detractions of Big Freakin' Sails.

The following inaugural BFS stories illustrate what this thread is all about. As I said, I'm a newbie - and you see my first BFS story below. You can then compare that with the other great BFS stories thereafter (sometimes edited to protect the innocent) which I think are great tales from great sailors; they cover the spectrum of "pushing the limits". Then, hopefully, you'll throw down some BFS of your own (either your own story, stories you admire, or stories that are just flat-out lies but with great BFS value - whatever).

Now, let's have some fun...shall we?
 
See less See more
#1,657 ·
That reminds me of an event on my old boat. I know it only second hand, as I was not there at the time. My boat partner and another friend took it out for a good day of sailing. When they came back in, my boat partner tried to step to the dock and missed.

Now, to understand the incident, realize that we had tied a landing yoke in the old slip to help center the boat and absorb excess energy on landing. He fell into the water straddling the yoke line. Since the boat was still moving, he was pushed all the way towards the dock. Still straddling the line. Just avoiding getting truly squished.

Remarkably, there were no injuries involved. But I still cringe every time I think about it. On my new boat, I have a rule that no one steps off the boat until it has come to a complete stop.
 
#1,660 · (Edited)
No, cap, it definitely wasn't funny until afterward. Then it was seriously funny. I'm still breaking out in bursts of laughter today - drawing curious stares.

bcampe - straddling the landing yoke? Ouch! I'm starting to like the idea of staying on the boat until all motion ceases. Or at least having my crew use my old hockey goalie gear for protection while docking.

St - I see what you mean about turning the other way. Thanks for the heads up. We had just nosed in and he stepped off just forward of starboard midship. Since I was still on a port quarter angle coming in I thought I could push the bow into the port finger and essentially wedge to a quick stop. Of course, I was scrambling to kill the motor, grab flotation, take pictures, text all my friends, and freshen my martini. So it was all a blur.

As for the bloody nose. I've learned a valuable lesson. That clew packs a freakin' punch!
 
#1,661 · (Edited)
No, cap, it definitely wasn't funny until afterward. Then it was seriously funny. I'm still breaking out in bursts of laughter today - drawing curious stares.

St - I see what you mean about turning the other way. Thanks for the heads up. We had just nosed in and he stepped off just forward of starboard midship. Since I was still on a port quarter angle coming in I thought I could push the bow into the port finger and essentially wedge to a quick stop. Of course, I was scrambling to kill the motor, grab flotation, take pictures, text all my friends, and freshen my martini. So it was all a blur.

As for the bloody nose. I've learned a valuable lesson. That clew packs a freakin' punch!
An assisted Darwin Award for your mate doesnt get a mention.

A new nickname for you "Scarface", Master Shredder (almost). Thats why people are always looking for crew, after having snotted, decapitated or shredded the previous batch. Thats really what sailing is about!!! Singlehanders just cant get crew (after having gained a rep for dismemberment of family or crew, or worse) so they are forced to go solo.

Sailing can be a dangerous game ( dependant on who is on the wheel/tiller]
 
#1,665 ·
October 11, 2009. Manhasset Bay.

It was our first year as boat owners, and there was dissension in the ranks. My 7 year old son Jake had thoroughly enjoyed it, throwing himself at the boat (1971 S&S 34) and its nooks and crannies. My 4 year old son wanted nothing to do with sailing (I'm hoping this has worn off by spring) - but everything to do with sleeping aboard. My 2 year old daughter loved it and wanted to steer - always.

As a NYC suburban father commuting to work via train everyday, I always enjoy the two 20 second vistas on my commute as we cross high above Manhasset Bay on the train trestle and then, shortly after stopping at Great Neck, we cross Little Neck Bay, this time low down amongst the grass. Six weeks earlier, I'd been wistfully staring out the window as we crossed Little Neck Bay only to see a small fiberglass dinghy high and dry in the estuary. It was far above the typical high tide line and had clearly been run ashore in a recent storm. Here is my reconnaissance photo from my blackberry.



It became part of my commute to wait and see if it was still there. Three weeks after it first appeared, I took Jake to Citi Field for his first ever baseball game, and as we passed through Little Neck Bay I pointed the dinghy out to him. A few weeks later, it was still there. I confessed to the Admiral my thoughts of salvage.

After a morning of pumpkin picking (an all-time favorite activity for me), it was time. I had told Jake a couple of days earlier that I wanted to make an attempt to salvage the dinghy. My wife thought (knew?) I was nuts, but in my heart this was always more about the adventure than the ending. It was a beautiful day and the forecast was for 12 - 15 knots of breeze out of the North. By the time we dropped off the mooring, it was almost 1:30. I had put up the main before setting out and, being foolish, had laid out the 143% genoa on the foredeck (yes, I have hanked on headsails) instead of the 95% blade. Almost immediately after dropping off, the wind picked up. It was blowing a good 15 at this point, with higher gusts, so I chose to motor sail out of Manhasset Bay under main only. It was like a mid-summer Sunday, there were so many boats out, and with just the two of us on board, I didn't want to deal with the traffic and the big genoa, at least not yet.

After rounding Hewlett Point, I decided to raise the genoa. Almost immediately, we cleared the lee of City Island and the wind picked up. It was blowing a good 18 with gusts over 20, and all I could think about was how difficult this could get if Jake started freaking out and anything went wrong. Instead of being scared, though, he kept asking if we were burying the rail(!), something I had mentioned a couple of months before in passing. Isn't it amazing the things they store in their brains when you think they aren't listening? I'm beginning to wonder what it takes to do this in my boat (we have a lot of tumblehome), as I had to disappoint him with a "no" throughout the trip. By the time we dropped anchor in Little Neck Bay (first time ever anchoring the boat) Jake had already had a trip to remember. It was time for the salvage operation.

We inflated and launched our little tender. Jake was excited as we headed out for the eel grass.



Picking our way along the shore, we found a little rivulet to run up towards the abandoned dinghy, eventually beaching? our inflatable on a mud bank. A 50 yard tromp through the mud and my secret suspicions were confirmed. She had a huge hole in her - beyond my limited capabilities.



Ah well, it had always been more of an excuse than anything else. We returned to the boat and weighed anchor. By now, I knew that our day of firsts was not over. It was obvious that the sun was going to be down long before I picked up the mooring. Even as the temperature dropped, Jake had a ball. He wrapped a blanket around himself and never once complained that his impetuous father had forgotten to bring any food along in case things took longer than expected. There was no moon that night, and it was overcast. I'm not sure I've ever seen such darkness that close to NYC, and I was glad to know that there are so few hazards coming into Manhasset Bay at night. I had known from the start that it was trip Jake would never forget, and it didn't disappoint.
 
#1,666 ·
Plumb - AWESOME BFS dude! Seriously, that is a great story!

I have to admit I was extremely bummed to see the hole. I was right there with you - tromping through the eel grass - ready to snag the ill-gotten booty. It looked so tempting from the train window, I would have done exactly the same thing.

Sounds like you and your kids had a great adventure. And that's what it's all about, man.

Welcome to SN.
 
#1,670 ·
Plumb, Thank you for taking me back to my childhood. I used to keep a 12 1/2 foot sloop moored in little neck bay right where you took the picture. I grew up in a house that overlooked the marsh (eel grass) that runs from Great Neck to Little Neck Bay. A real blast from the past. Thanks again.
 
#1,674 ·
Smack,

I've been pretty busy of late and haven't checked the BFS thread in a long time. Looks like you are doing a good job "sheparding" it along.

Regards,
Brad
 
#1,676 ·
Great BFS story from PCP...

Great thread. There are on these forums a lot of very experienced sailors that seem to enjoy sharing information. Thanks to them.
I have never been in such a bad weather that needed survival tactics. Just a couple of times with force 10.

But I know that 40kn of wind is not always too much to sail safely. It depends on the boat. Sure, with a 20ft boat, but not with all sailing boats.

I have learned a lot with my friend Armand. Armand was a Flemish sailor that lived aboard with his family on a 15 m steel ketch : Horoscoop. 30 years ago his boat was at my home port and he enjoyed it so much that he stayed for some years.

I had at the time an 80-year-old 22ft traditional sailing boat and one day, when I was going out, he asked me if he could come with me. Later on the day he said that he loved my boat. It turns out that it was very similar to a boat that he had sailed in his youth (he was 60 years old) from Antwerp, around British Islands to Finland where he was shipwrecked by a big storm.
We became good friends and almost every time I sailed out, Armand joined me.

One stormy day, I was looking at my boat, seeing if everything was alright when I was surprised by Armand. He came and said to me : let's go sailing. I looked him and said: Are you crazy?
He said: No, not on yours, today let's sail mine.

It was at least a force 9, perhaps more, and it was a wonderful sailing. Armand was a great sailor, I was just doing what he told me to do, but between the two of us we had no difficulty in sailing his boat, and what a sail.

It became a habit, when the stormy winds were blowing, we sailed his boat, not mine. I have very good memories from that time. Armand built some reputation among the fishermen. When they were returning for shelter on their 70ft boats, we were going out for having some fun. I learned in those days that a sailboat well managed is much safer than a motorboat. I remember to pass those fishing boats doing over 10k and feeling comfortable, while they bounced on big waves, doing very little speed, sometimes with their propellers out of water.

Of course his boat was so heavy that on normal days the best he could do was motorsailing.;)

Bottom point, 40ft winds for survival tactics, for an oceangoing boat, it seemed to me a bit excessive. After all on the last Mini Transat the Minis (6,5m) get over 40k winds and all of them (70) went on racing…and with just a solo sailor. No casualties.

Regards

Paulo
Armand sounds like a great sailor.
 
#1,677 ·
Thanks for finding that story interesting enough to repost it here.

Since you like to appreciate good stories I will tell you one that was told to me by a good friend of mine.

This guy is a sailing instructor, member of our national sailing federation and a very good sailor that keeps sailing and cruising with his small Beneteau when much bigger boats run for shelter.

One windy day, he was at the marina when he saw on the horizon a small sail coming fast. The sea was not properly stormy, but it was one of those days most sailors choose to stay at the marina.

It turned out to be a small Dragonfly (Danish trimaran that can make 20K). He helped its solo sailor to put the boat on the marina and was surprised to found out that he was 70 years old and had come alone from Denmark. He could not restrain himself to ask if that boat was not too fast for him.

The guy smiled and said: "Well, I can go slower, but you cannot go faster", said the guy pointing to my friend's boat.

That´s one of those occasions when you find that you should have better remained silent.
 
#1,679 · (Edited)


Well, it was a nice day on the water today. 10 knots or so, 70 degrees. Very nice sail.

BUT, the big freakin' of the day was actually a BFChristening. Mazerat7 invited me to the renaming/christening of his sweet new C36. What a nice yacht. The man has truly scored. And, of course, I immediately drank all his rum and offended his guests. It was a gas.

It's the first christening I've been to, and Maze definitely did it up right. Poseidon HAD to have gotten a bit misty with all the poetic toasts and champagne schpritzing. Hopefully Maze will give us a thread on it.

Yet again, it's cool getting to meet fellow SiNcitiers. Doesn't sailing just freakin' ROCK!
 
#1,680 ·
bljones pointed out this BFS. And a BFS it certainly is...sailing that pushes limits, whatever those limits may be.

Below are the first post in her thread "Too old to cruise?" - and a responding post 3 pages later after she got all inspired by the great sailors here on Sailnet.

Since I was very young I dreamed about solo circumnavigation. Instead, I had a career and raised four children. I raced on the bay. Now, my children are on their own (and very successful, I might add :) So, I bought a Contessa 26. A great boat. . . for a young person??? I have arthritis and I am not strong. I get tired easy. I have scaled down my dream and am fine with that. I don't have to circumnavigate the globe. The Caribbean would make me happy. But, my question is: is it irresponsible and selfish for an older person who can hardly lift the emergency rudder, let alone install it, to put herself out there on the ocean? Or, for that matter, gets winded when she raises the main sail. Fortuantely, I had a pretty profitable (althouth sedentary) career and I'm thinking electric winches. What do you think? But, what happens if they fail? Am I endgandering others? Or, should I just do it? Thanks.
Your posts inspired me. I feel so much better. I don't have to be adept at sailing my Contessa overnight. It is a learning process. Thank God that part of my body still works. I took a couple of Advil and I could hardly feel the arthritis. The main raised (almost) easily. I practiced with the windvane and took a nap on the boat. A low is moving in. The clouds were spectacular. It was so very lovely. Isn't the sailing community awesome? Thank you all.
You go Dulcitea!
 
#1,681 ·
For all those who said he'd never leave the dock - time to eat some barbecued crow.

Definitely an epic BFS CD!

Hey Everyone! How are you? Anything exciting happen while I was away? I am sure everyone got along, no bannings, and no rule-breaking!

Well, I will try and recount a bit of our trip and some pics. A lot of it was very uneventful. Some of it was too eventful and your's truly made at least one bad decision (not the last, I assure you). So, here goes:

We dropped the boat in Pensacola. I will do a lot more writeups about this later, but let me tell you that Pensacola rates number one on my list of places to take your boat and outfit her. I have been to MANY ports, from San Diego, Houston/Kemah, obviously the Valiant Yard at Texoma, and all over southwest Florida, and I will tell you that these guys are top notch, extremely courteous, VERY NICE, and inexpensive. All those words do not typically go together, as anyone in boating knows. Again, I will do lots of pics and writeups on this later, but for those completing the circle and exiting Mobile, this is a great port to refit if you only want to push east a bit further.

The outfitting in Pensacola went fairly seemless. Nothing broke on the shipment. We chose Penbsacola because I figured that we might get stuck there for Christmas (which we did) and I wanted a nicer place to spend Christmas with the family than some other ports. And yes, for those interested, Santa Clause does make visits to boats! He took good care of the kiddos (and mom and dad's credit card). I seem to have some of those pics on my other camera, so we will have to hold off there.

After we had everything ready, Kris and the kids hoped in the truck and headed south to Fort Myers Beach with some good friends of ours that live on the beach. We came VERY close to taking them with us (especially Chase) as it looked like it would be a milk run across the gulf. In the end, we decided not to and simply dad and I went across. This turned out to be a very good decision as you will see shortly.

I tried to pick my weather window fairly well, and failed miserably. I headed out a tad bit too early. The weather called for a northern to come through after the high and clock the winds around to a favorable reach. Instead, the wind built and never clocked and the seas got nasty. By that time we were committed.

Here is a pic of us as we headed out. That is dad steering and Pensacola Bay in the background.



When we headed out the wind was blowing out of the east about 15-20k and the air temp was in the 50's I would guess. We elected to put up a full enclosure (except the back) and it turned out to be a life saver. I have become a huge fan of them overnight - although the seas partially tore some of it in the gale.

By that evening the wind was blowing sustained 25 and gusting to 30. By nightfall it was usstained 25-35, and we saw 50 knots - all out of the freaking east. The problem was that we were heading east too! We tacked and tacked countless miles. The seas grew nast and were breaking over our nose as we rushed down into the trough. We consistently took breakers on the dodger and about every fifteen minutes took one ON TOP of the bimini! I am sorry that the pics suck and they do not do the seas justice, but here goes with some lousy pictures:

Before Nightfall:









It was about this time we realized that the wind and weather had been very badly guessed by our friendly meteorologists, and wee were going to be in for a nice little gale offshore.

By nightfall:

The wind picking up and gusting way past 25, though I only shot 25 here.





These are pics right after the seas broke on our Bimini. The bimini held it, but everything leaked through. By that time we were soaking wet and getting beat up.





At the worst of it I ended up having a roller furling failure... but not the in-mast! The jib got backed as we tried to pull it in and I had to go forward and get her un-tangled from the roller furling. I honetly thought I was going to have to cut down the jib at one point as it was very hard to hold ontp the boat and get it unraveled while staying safe. Poor dad was sicker than a dog. trying to keep her running straight in a large rolling sea. But we did it and got her in and nothing broke.

Well, we survived the gale. We pulled into Panama City that next morning (we were not scheduled to make panama, but it is an awesome stop over guys for those who need to get a rest and it is an easy port to make even in a storm). Thumbs up to Panama City.

We got ourselves cleaned up and waited out the approaching front as it pushed in. Poor Mountain Mike (a member here and a super nice guy) got his hands full in that one.

Lots more to tell here, but let's just say that I will be making my way north to Panama City come Spring. It looks an awesome cruising cround and is pretty and relatively cheap. They cater to cruisers and it shows.

At Panama, on the back side of the low/Northern, we puched out. We may have pushed out a tad bit early, but I wanted to catch the back side and run with it and see how the boat would do offshore in that kind of seas and wind. She did awesome, awesome, awesome! Here, take a look at the speed:



That's right... 9.1 knots, but I saw 9.5 and we did a steady 8.5-8.8! We were surfing, Baby. And it was a nice, smooth easy run. It was colder than crap. I think it got below freezing both nights, but the trip was so nice and smooth that we alterered our course further south to make straight for Port Charlotte and avoided Tampa and the other cities all together.

Here are some much nicer and more memorable pics:







And some of my favorite pics of the trip:

This pic was offshore between appalachicola and Tampa, IIRC. It is Sunset (soon to go in our sunset pics thread). Nope... no green flash. I am beginning to believe that is a myth!!! Although dad did flush the toilet and we got some brown-green flashes... but I do not think that is the same.


First, beautiful sunrise... (the others were yucky and cloudy)...



I just thought this pic looked cool! The sun was lighting up the Jib brilliantly and I had to take a pic of it creatively. Xort would be proud!



Anyways, that is at least part one of the trip. I will try and get some more stories and pics up a little later. Everyone take care. I will reply back to all of you as soon as I can!!

Brian and family!
 
#1,682 ·
Glad to see you and the thread are still going strong Smack. I've been doing a bunch of sailing on my buddy's C-27 but nothing I'd call BFS worthy. My C-25 splashes water today with a new bottom job, masthead light and roller furler. This weekend looks like some great sailing in North Texas, good wind and in the sixties all weekend long.

For the people who think you're promoting dangerous sailing and endangering people, they should GTFO of the thread because they're just a bunch of whiny harpies who clearly don't get the spirit of it.

This thread is always the one that leads me back to sailnet.

Plum and CD, I loved your stories.

Smack, I like your new merch site but I have a question, what is "Get flicked"?

BTW, my band is supposed to head down to Austin and play Rockfest during SXSW in March, maybe we can get out for a sail or rum or three?
 
#1,683 · (Edited)
Smack, I like your new merch site but I have a question, what is "Get flicked"?

BTW, my band is supposed to head down to Austin and play Rockfest during SXSW in March, maybe we can get out for a sail or rum or three?
PCP - congrats on the upcoming splash dude! And definitely let me know when you're here. The rum and sailing are on me.

As for the "get flicked" - it's one of two things:

1. Getting banned (which I know a lot about).
2. Being the greenhorn crewman in a blow and having the boat "flick" you over the rail like a booger - while the skipper rolls his/her eyes and throws the obligatory Lifesling.

I've got #1 completely covered. And I'm sincerely hoping to avoid #2 when I help JohnShasteen move his boat in the next couple of months. Even so, I'll be sporting that fine hoodie on that sail.
 
#1,685 · (Edited)
As for the safety issue I do want to make one thing clear...

Pushing limits in sailing (the idea behind BFS) requires much more attention to safety - than not doing it. Just look at those who race, or those who sail through nasty conditions. If you're not careful...you're dead. I think everyone, including new sailors with at least double digit IQs, really understand this.

Complacency kills.

That said, like I've said a million times, "pushing limits" is very relative. My "limits" as a new sailor are not any other sailor on this board's "limits". The trick is being smart enough to recognize what your limits are and what you need to do to safely prepare for and push them. Because, as you can see by the stories herein, doing that successfully is pretty much the most fun thing you'll ever do in your life.

(This Public Service Announcement brought to you by the "Darwinian Society of Reckless Sailors".)
 
#1,686 ·
I don't know about you, but I am not too crazy about when someone copies an entire post of mine without my permission to promote his own agenda. Cruisingdad probably feels the same. This is pretty clearly what Smackdaddy keeps doing...like he did with CD's post about his post about his last trip.
 
#1,688 ·
I thought CD's post was a great example of a BFS and if it hadn't been on this thread I would have missed it. Besides, it's a public forum right? Why would someone need permission to quote what you've posted on a public thread or do you guys have some crazy rules I'm not aware of?
 
#1,689 · (Edited)
Smackdaddy could just as easily have posted a permalink and a brief summary, rather than hijacking the post in its entirety.

First, hijacking the post in its entirety, without permission of the writer is pretty much against the rules of the forum as I recall it, since it is a copyrighted work. In the Terms of service it says:

Copyright violations are prohibited. Please link to any web content you are concerned about rather than pasting it on the site. Some copyright material may be posted on the site under 'fair use' doctrine but moderators will remove any questionable material they find and the copyright holder for the content of your posts may hold YOU responsible
Second, hijacking the post in its entirety instead of posting a permalink adds a lot of redundant data to the server, which in short time will lead to more resources being needed. As SmackDaddy probably doesn't work in the IT field, he probably doesn't have a clue about what this can mean.

Third, IMHO, his primary agenda is to drive traffic to his BFS site... which is a commercial site. It'd be different if he didn't have a link to his commercial site in his signature...but he does. I'd also point out that the Terms of Service say:

You may not insert a signature in your post promoting a commercial enterprises/website unless you are a Sailnet Advertiser.
Smackdaddy, are you a sailnet advertiser??
 
#1,694 · (Edited)
Siiiiiggggghhhhhh. First, welcome back Dog. It's good to see you posting again. Really. I hope your holidays were rockin' and that you got some sweet sailing in.

Now that that's outta the way, why do you insist on stirring up trouble, dude? You're doing an admirable job of barking...but, as usual, it's just up the wrong tree.

Let's look at these torrid allegations one by one...

Smackdaddy could just as easily have posted a permalink and a brief summary, rather than hijacking the post in its entirety.
Hellllooooo, dude, I'm right here. You can actually talk to me if you'd like.

I asked you earlier what post of yours that you're talking about me "hijacking". You've still not really answered that one. So?

As for adding CD's killer post to the BFS thread...as I said earlier, if he has a problem with it and asks me to remove it...I'm happy to oblige.

Now - as for permalinking or summarizing...no thanks. Too much hassle. It's way easier to just quote the best posts and bring 'em in. Also, I wouldn't want to run the risk of misquoting someone or garbling their prose. Know what I mean?

First, hijacking the post in its entirety, without permission of the writer is pretty much against the rules of the forum as I recall it, since it is a copyrighted work. In the Terms of service it says:

Copyright violations are prohibited. Please link to any web content you are concerned about rather than pasting it on the site. Some copyright material may be posted on the site under 'fair use' doctrine but moderators will remove any questionable material they find and the copyright holder for the content of your posts may hold YOU responsible
I've noticed you like to use terms like "pretty much", "as I recall" and "probably" a lot. Not exactly rock solid legal jargon when throwing around copyright law - but that's neither nor there.

Do you not use the quote feature on SN? Do you ask the original poster's permission when you do? Did you just steal or plagiarize CharlieCobra's previous post when you quoted it? Hmmm.

Have you ever quoted something from one SN thread to the other without asking permission? Were you outraged at yourself when you did it?

Don't I recall you pulling in stuff from other forums (screenshots and the like) and posting it here? Was that crossing your line?

C'mon.

With your reading of the above rule any of these things - very typical with IN-FORUM content - would be verboten. So I think you're grasping on this one.

I'm pretty sure what the rule is talking about is copyrighted content from outside SN being pulled in without permission. And, in any case, the rule states that the mods will delete anything they find questionable. So far things seem to be okay...except with you.

But let's continue...

Second, hijacking the post in its entirety instead of posting a permalink adds a lot of redundant data to the server, which in short time will lead to more resources being needed. As SmackDaddy probably doesn't work in the IT field, he probably doesn't have a clue about what this can mean.
Heh-heh-heh-heh-heh. Wow. Where to start? Okay, first, my hunch is that, based on previous chatter I've seen from rather disgruntled folks about my internet forum "techniques", your main problem is the "Old Salt's..." thread.

Assuming this is right - why did I start it? You should go take a look in that thread to see why. Or look in recent posts in FC for an explanation. In short, it was to save newbs from having to dig through hundreds of old threads to find great information from great sailors. From this one central location (the Old Salt's thread) they can then jump directly into the threads from which the best posts came and continue the discussion based on their needs.

It seems that someone around here...can't remember who...routinely told them to dig to hell and back to find stuff themselves so they wouldn't ask such stupid questions (bandwidth). Then they told them, quite firmly, never to float an old thread - but to start new ones instead (storage).

Now, take a deep breath and think for a moment Dog. According to your redundant data paradigm above, which of these approaches is far more brilliant? Exactly. And the Old Salt technique is not only carbon neutral, it actually HELPS newbies to SN find info they're looking for without having to ask the salts the same old questions!

I amaze myself...even without an IT clue!

I'm actually curious as to the real reasons you think doing something like this is a bad thing.

Third, IMHO, his primary agenda is to drive traffic to his BFS site... which is a commercial site. It'd be different if he didn't have a link to his commercial site in his signature...but he does. I'd also point out that the Terms of Service say:

"You may not insert a signature in your post promoting a commercial enterprises/website unless you are a Sailnet Advertiser."

Smackdaddy, are you a sailnet advertiser??
Look at the ad in the middle of various pages. Yes I am. As Charlie said, the online store grew out of this very thread. Not the other way around.

However, being a SN advertiser doesn't give me any leeway to be a jerk. It actually gives me far less. And I understand that.

So, if you'll stop with the weirdness, I'll stop with the sarcasm. I'm happy to talk it out WITH YOU if you'd like. But you'll need to talk TO me, not make proclamations ABOUT me. Deal?

Oh yeah - and finally, I have ALWAYS asked for and received written permission to use any outside content on the BFS site. (BTW - when are you gonna BFS dude?)
 
#1,690 ·
Nah, it's PUBLIC material. If it was on a private blog or something it would be a different story. Dog just doesn't like smack or his BFS thread very much.... However, most times, smack asks a poster's permission before using a post.

Uh huh, smack started this thread a long time before he started that little business of his. He actually started that business after getting suggestions to do so from others up here so chill out Dog..
 
#1,691 ·
Charlie-

Just cause it is posted on an open internet forum, doesn't mean that the work isn't the property of the person who wrote it or that the material is in the public domain. It is still copyrighted text and photos.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top