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  #101  
Old 05-15-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekeip View Post
l124c....whoever you are....

I'm simply not interested in your opinion.

Howard Keiper
Berkeley
Oh, excuse me. When you posted " I don't understand the difficulty you seem to be having with my non-affiliation with any particular yard.", I thought I would offer (for the third time!) the clarification you were apparently seeking. My mistake! Silly me!
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  #102  
Old 05-15-2009
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Okay so you were with your boat for some time, and never noticed it was on the bottom in this whole time. Why didn't you get a slip? There are probably several hundred within a 100yrds? Possibly even an empty one?

I would think Cree cares not to enter into this. Both from a personal, and legal reason. I am sorry, but the inconsistancies here are now public, and can be brought into a courtroom I do believe. If I was your lawyer I would advise you to stay away from the keyboard. You seem to be inflicting an awful lot of damage to yourself. Some of which may prove to be slanderous.

I am not taking a side, but I have worked with Cree several times, and found him to be very giving of his knowledge. This is why I have these questions. In todays society no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions, or even lack of action. It is always someone else's fault.

I feel bad for your situation no matter whose to blame, or even if the blame is somewhere in the middle. After all we here are all lovers of boats. There is no one here mean spirited, but you must remember something. You came here, and brought this out to the public seeking to destroy a business. You have brought the doubt, and questions upon yourself. No one hunted you down, and tortured you to bring forth what you have brought to this thread. You will be the one to carry the burden of truth, and must be willing to accept the enquiring minds that ask questions of your tale of misery.

I do have a wonderful sense of humor, but I see nothing funny in your 2 personalities. You need to treat this as business, and quit with the childish games of emotions. You are an adult aren't you? Then you should treat this situation as an adult. BEST WISHES in sorting out your horrible mess.......i2f
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  #103  
Old 05-15-2009
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One point I'd like to make... regardless of how knowledgeable or competent Cree may be, not all of is employees are necessarily so, and regardless of who worked on the boat or moved it, if it was a BMC employee, the over all responsibility for the actions of his employees falls on Cree's shoulders.

When I had my boat commissioned three years ago, I had some electrical work done by Peter Kennedy Yacht Services, of Edgewater, MD. The quality of the work was absymal, and I am pretty sure that Peter Kennedy did not do any of it himself, as I was there observing for a good portion of the time. However, it was Peter Kennedy that assured me that the work would be done on a timely fashion and done properly—neither of which was true. His company was over four weeks late on finishing the work and much of the work has had to be re-done as I stated on my blog.

The same is true of any work that was done by BMC... regardless of who did the actual work, Cree is responsible for it.
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  #104  
Old 05-15-2009
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Just wanted to add the following:

If you are tied to a fuel dock you can't expect to be located in a place where boats who need fuel would be blocked from getting to the pump. So I suspect that the LE was moved further and further down the dock while boats who needed access came to use the fuel pump. I suspect that BMC placed your boat at the fuel dock because they were not accepting responsibility for your boat by placing it at the boatyard docks; and the boat was not "in their possession" since you did not provide a deposit that they had requested (despite any verbal agreement).

I would suspect another culprit in terms of the damage to the keel; since you mention that the boat was towed from HMB up to SF Bay in May you should also be aware that this time of year is whale migration season and that there is a huge probability that the boat ran over a whale and suffered damage to the keel. Last June we sailed from SF down to HMB and on the way back the whales were breaching all over the place. At one point I had the engine at full throttle (forget sailing) to avoid one coming up beneath my boat.

Again; I can't imagine enough lateral force or forces due to a boat resting on a shoal to cause keel damage. Many boats do this while up in delta sloughs while tied to the shore bow-in; or sailboats careening to do bottom work where there is no place to haul out. It really should not cause a failure of the keel fasteners unless there are severely corroded or fatigued bolts. I say this because the keel is pretty much the spine of a boat like yours; and if anything would have failed by sitting on a shoal it would have been a seam opening on the side of the boat due to the keel carrying the weight of the boat. The keel shoe is an integral part of the keel and it would have only stiffened the keel and protected it from any slight form of hard grounding if there was a rock beneath the bottom of the boat. How do you know it was sitting on the bottom? Was it sitting out of the water at low tide; and if so, how much and do you have pictures?

In this particular case I just can't find BMC to blame; as opposed to what happened to my friend waiting 6 months for rigging work and lots done wrong on other jobs, or the damages to the OP's Beneteau with subsequent "hostage situation".

If you care about the historic boat you own; and "never want to see a boat again." as you said in your pevious post; you should consider donating it to either the Maritime Museum in San Francisco; or to the Spaulding Wooden Boat Center in Sausalito ( Spaulding Wooden Boat Center: HOME PORT ).Be sure and tell them where they can find the keel (sitting on the Berkeley Marina Breakwater); so it can be retrieved and re-attached. Instead of being a floating planter box it would be restored, preserved, and sailed; and that's what I think Mr. Hess would have liked to see...

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 05-15-2009 at 09:36 AM.
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  #105  
Old 05-15-2009
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KH's point about whether the BMC actually had responsibility for the boat, considering that they were not contracted to do work on the boat, even though that was primarily due to their breach of a verbal agreement for a contract according to Maryambaker, is a good one.

However, whether the BMC was responsible for the boat or not is probably a point for the courts to decide. If the BMC is found to be responsible for the boat, based on the tentative contract that Maryambaker had with them, then, IMHO, they'd be responsible for the damage to the boat. If the BMC is found not to be responsible for the boat, then they're not responsible for the damage to the boat either.

In either case, the owner had a choice to move the Lady Elizabeth back to where she was taken from originally. Granted, this would have been an expensive option, but it was one that the owner had. It could probably be argued that if the Lady Elizabeth was towed back to her home port on a timely basis, the damage would not have occurred.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #106  
Old 05-15-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
It could probably be argued that if the Lady Elizabeth was towed back to her home port on a timely basis, the damage would not have occurred.
Or to a transient slip at Berkeley Marina; or any other nearby marina in SF Bay for which there are many with available berths...
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  #107  
Old 05-15-2009
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Emery Cove is less than a mile away with no need at all to go around the old Berkeley pier. It could've easily been towed with a hip tow through the gap, or around the pier at the least. In June the bay is flat up until 11am. Yes it will blow 25-30 knots daily, but mornings are calm......i2f
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  #108  
Old 05-19-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter33 View Post
KEELHAULIN - I think you are on to something. Two groups are posting to this thread. Owners with good or bad experiences at San Francisco boat yards and employees or contractors at Berkeley Marine Center.

I have spoken with many SF boat owners and have not found one that did not have a poor to terrible experience at BM and a good (but expensive) experience at KKMI or Svensens...

The only reason to go to BM is that you are going to do all the work yourself and don't mind the filth and poorly maintained equipment...be careful they don't drop your boat after you complete your work

I suspect the following posters are affiliated with BM:

THEKEIP
THEBRUSHAND
FASTBOTTOMS

Carter33,

You protest too much.

Here at Sailnet, we have a strict policy against individual users having multiple sign-ons/accounts. At this point we have good reason to believe that you have been posting to this thread with several aliases. That doesn't do much good for your cause.

Now would be a good time to come clean and set the record straight. Otherwise this thread and the complaints against BMC will appear farcical when three or four of the chief complainants are banned from Sailnet.
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  #109  
Old 05-20-2009
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Sorry to be a kill joy but I can assure the multifaceted carter33 that i am not an affiliate of BMC. I happen to be a master painter, and I have done work at BMC, but only on my own boat as a fee-paying private individual. Apologies to the detractors of cree and co, but my opinions for and against BMC and KKMI are based on personal experience as a punter, not a contractor.
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  #110  
Old 05-20-2009
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I have had quite a bit of work done on my boat at Berkeley Marine and have been totally happy. Cree Partridge is a god send. Every time I need to figure out how to do something, I go ask Cree and he seems happy to spend the time it takes to answer any question I have. I can't imagine being able to do that at a larger yard.

Chris King
Alden 44 Puffin
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