Surveys? Often Recommended, but how good are they? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 25 Old 10-18-2008
Senior Member
 
RocketScience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Home Port Seattle
Posts: 173
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Surveys? Often Recommended, but how good are they?

Good question, however I have another...

OK, so you pay a Surveyor the $500 or so bucks to check-out a boat. He gives it a decent bill of health. You purchase your dream based on this survey. You then find out later that he missed a major obvious flaw which costs you a buttload of dinero to repair.

What is the boat owners recourse with the Surveyor? What is 'policy' in a case such as this?
RocketScience is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 25 Old 10-18-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 5,829
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketScience View Post
Good question, however I have another...

OK, so you pay a Surveyor the $500 or so bucks to check-out a boat. He gives it a decent bill of health. You purchase your dream based on this survey. You then find out later that he missed a major obvious flaw which costs you a buttload of dinero to repair.

What is the boat owners recourse with the Surveyor? What is 'policy' in a case such as this?

Thats, the whole point to a survey. Insurance and the banks require one why? Because if the D+++ thing sinks They want to be able to go back on someone. The owner is not an option. He all ready borrowed money to pay for the thing. I as as new owner would want a survey, They carry insurance if they are wrong. I not willing to sick my neck out that far for a major purchase.
bubb2 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #13 of 25 Old 10-18-2008
Senior Member
 
RocketScience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Home Port Seattle
Posts: 173
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
Thats, the whole point to a survey. Insurance and the banks require one why? Because if the D+++ thing sinks They want to be able to go back on someone...
Of course, but in the case where a purchase loan was/is not required, what is typical policy regarding the Surveyor? Will his (the Surveyor's) insurance cover the cost? Will his insurance do so willingly without threat of a lawsuit? Do they typically reimburse all or part of their original fee?
RocketScience is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #14 of 25 Old 10-18-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 5,829
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15
     
Nothing happens any more with out a lawsuit. I know it is sad. but everyone wants to hedge their investment.
bubb2 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #15 of 25 Old 10-18-2008
Senior Member
 
RocketScience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Home Port Seattle
Posts: 173
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
Nothing happens any more with out a lawsuit. I know it is sad. but everyone wants to hedge their investment.
Unfortunate, but true.

I guess I will be finding out. And I guess I will also be asking any prospective Surveyor my questions from post #13.
RocketScience is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #16 of 25 Old 10-18-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 5,829
Thanks: 0
Thanked 18 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 15
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketScience View Post
Unfortunate, but true.

I guess I will be finding out. And I guess I will also be asking any prospective Surveyor my questions from post #13.
the best thing you can ask a surveyor is a copy of his current insurance "certificate of insurance" from his errors and omissions carrier.
bubb2 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #17 of 25 Old 10-19-2008
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,551
Thanks: 105
Thanked 316 Times in 302 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
I suspect that most surveys contain disclaimers that are basically waivers as to the surveyors' responsibilities and liablilities in situations such as that above.

Hence the unfortunate lawsuit course.....

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #18 of 25 Old 10-19-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,394
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 12
     
Typical O&E policies cover only the cost of the survey, not collateral damage.

Lets look at a couple of scenarios..

Couple is looking at a Frogbobber41. Said boat is in decent shape, except I missed where the chrome plated tittlater valve goesinta the whatsit. The fitting springs a leak, and sprays gobs of goo all over the cabin.
You want to be able to sue me to clean up the goo?
Ummmm, are you frickin' nuts?

Lets use that same convoluted objective logic.
And this happens FAR more often.
Consider the Frogbobber41.
Decent shape, except that I see the fitting that goesinta the tittlater valve should be replaced and duly note it in the report.
You purchase said tub.
in 3 weeks, the fitting breaks and goo flies all over the cabin.
Would it be ok if I brought suit against you for being a dumbass and not replacing the fitting? I mean, hey, its only fair, right? Probably patriotic too.

I can understand if its something obvious and major.
Its your boat, you bought it, like it, warts and all, just like your wife. Don't come cryin' to me if she turns out to be nuts.

We are not primarily on earth to see through one another, but to see one another through

Some people are like slinkies: not really good for anything... but you can't help laughing when you push them down the stairs
cardiacpaul is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #19 of 25 Old 10-19-2008
Senior Member
 
BarryL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,823
Thanks: 4
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
boat buying, surveying, boat knowledge

Hi Crazy,

Quote:
If someone cannot evaluate a boat he is going to own, he is not ready to own the boat. It's my opinion. Boat construction is not a rocket science. Construction is very simple, most system are rudimentary compare to systems we have in a houses and cars. If you are buying used boat, most likely there is a ton of information on any given models on internet, with all possible flaws shown. There are books and courses.
Wow, I totally I disagree with this statement. I agree that boat owners should become familiar with the equipment on the boat, I don't think it's likely that they will be expert enough to evaluate the condition of a prospective boat owner. I don't think that most potential boat owners can determine if standing rigging is in good condition or worn out, if the rudder and steering gear is OK, if the stuffing box, electrical system, furler, etc. are in good or bad condition. Personally, I want an expert to look at all those things, AND all the things I don't even consider.

Quote:
If you going to buy the boat – take digital camera with you. Shoot every inch of the boat. Especially shoot every corner you actually cannot see – under floors, bilge, under settees, hull to deck joint, etc.
Do not trust your eyes; take as many pictures as you can, bring them home, drool over them one evening or too, take notes… Go there second time and check every point you didn’t like – cracks, rust, bubbles, color mismatch etc…
Now you may need a surveyor, as a second opinion, or may not…
My surveyor didn’t find 70 % flaws I knew already there. I had to hire him to get insurance.
I think this is excellent advice. IMHO, if you STILL like the boat, hire a surveyor to check the things you didn't see, especially if the boat is in the water.

My last comment. I have had two boats surveyed. I didn't get price reductions after either survey. I did have the current owners make some simple repairs. I did learn much about the boats, and I received a list of items to be corrected, some immediately, and others to be done either in the off season or at my leisure.

Good luck,
Barry

Barry Lenoble
Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
Mt. Sinai, NY

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
BarryL is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #20 of 25 Old 10-21-2008
Senior Member
 
RocketScience's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Home Port Seattle
Posts: 173
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardiacpaul View Post
Typical O&E policies cover only the cost of the survey, not collateral damage....
Fair enough.

I believe my curiosity in this situation is from a culpability standpoint. We as prospective (and sometimes naive) boat owners rely on professional surveys in a decision making process which many times involves substantial financial outlay. If a survey is 'blown' on an obvious defect, costing the boat owner serious financial hardship, it would appear that the boat owner is left holding the bucket.
RocketScience is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recommended Reading Sonofasonofasailor Apps & Authors 540 06-14-2015 10:28 PM
Low-cost outfitting GoodOldBoat Good Old Boat 5 03-21-2013 08:38 AM
Good marinas in Cancun?? Iggy Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 2 05-10-2008 12:55 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome