Mainsheet System - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 10-23-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,946
Thanks: 5
Thanked 81 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
This sounds interesting.. I'd be concerned if ever both ends were "clutched"... such setups have poor mechanical advantage tackle-wise (relying on the winch for power) and having to dump the mainsheet via clutch could be trouble.. but if only one end is clutched and the working end left winch only, it could work....

The only other concern I'd have would be a kink in the line coming off the winch jamming in the clutch when you're trying to dump the main in a hurry....

hmmmm......good tinkin there F. I hadn't thought about the kinky problem but simply taking a turn on the winch should straighten it out , shouldn't it ?

Need to ponder this.....I really do like the sound of the basic system......certainly has to be better than the old ratchet block....
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 10-23-2008
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 15,346
Thanks: 88
Thanked 242 Times in 233 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
True, if you remember to keep that last turn on the winch that should take care of that concern.

TD, will you have a place/space on or near the coaming to actually locate the stopper where it will a) have an acceptable lead angle (both to the clutch, and between clutch and winch) b) be easily reached and operated and c) not be a literal PITA (ie screw up some coaming seating space??

From our experience it seems that the boat's cockpit needs to be designed with that sort of sheeting system in mind from the beginning, and may not be easily retrofitted.
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

Last edited by Faster; 10-23-2008 at 10:02 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 10-23-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 730
Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 9
knuterikt is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster
This sounds interesting.. I'd be concerned if ever both ends were "clutched"... such setups have poor mechanical advantage tackle-wise (relying on the winch for power) and having to dump the mainsheet via clutch could be trouble.. but if only one end is clutched and the working end left winch only, it could work....

The only other concern I'd have would be a kink in the line coming off the winch jamming in the clutch when you're trying to dump the main in a hurry....
I have rigged the controll lines on my traveller so they can be released from the wheel. I think that releasing the controll line will do the job if I need to release power.

But it is also necessary to be able to adjust the main sheet rapidly in some cases.

In my current setup I have a cheek block to lead the sheet to the winch.
I have not had any incidents with fouled sheet with this configuration.

The problem with kinks will always be there when a rope has to pass through a block, clutch or something else, the key here is to keep the rope clear without kinks.

The sheet should never be clutched and tailed on the same side simultaneously, but I dont think using clutches only will be so bad.

I'm going to use Lewmar clutches - they can be used as a brake when releasing the rope, so you can controll the rope release without using the winch.

Sailing season is over for me, boat on the hard and mast down for some modifications - so i will not be able to report on the practical use before next summer. But I have seen this setup on several boats and is quite confident that it will work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 10-23-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,946
Thanks: 5
Thanked 81 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
True, if you remember to keep that last turn on the winch that should take care of that concern.

TD, will you have a place/space on or near the coaming to actually locate the stopper where it will a) have an acceptable lead angle (both to the clutch, and between clutch and winch) b) be easily reached and operated and c) not be a literal PITA (ie screw up some coaming seating space??

From our experience it seems that the boat's cockpit needs to be designed with that sort of sheeting system in mind from the beginning, and may not be easily retrofitted.
The flaw in my logic could be in the remembering.......

Too true re the lead angle from the clutch to the winch. This is a very recent concept to me so I'm still very much in planning stage but remember that the Womboat is steel. Fabricating something on which to mount the clutch would not be difficult and I have easy access under that part of the deck or coaming for attachments.

I need to add at least two new winches to the old girl as it is so if I have a problem it will be space for winches.

Provided weather holds I'll be on board tomorrow. Will have a good look then.

Knut - It may well be that I get this done before your winter is over. I'll keep you informed of my progress.

ps - ref the German or Admiral's Cup system.....word is that it was a German boat called Pinta. Not confirmed.
__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #25  
Old 10-24-2008
Valiente's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,491
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Valiente has a spectacular aura about Valiente has a spectacular aura about
That 40 footer is off the table, then? You're sticking with the steel beastie for now? (I recall it's 34-35 feet or something, which is about as compact as you want in steel).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #26  
Old 10-24-2008
zz4gta's Avatar
I don't discuss my member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Posts: 2,468
Thanks: 0
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 8
zz4gta is on a distinguished road
Why not add a cascade or 2 speed mainsheet system. It's gotta be cheaper than adding 2 winches and clutches.
__________________
Merit 25 # 764 "Audrey"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #27  
Old 10-25-2008
tdw's Avatar
tdw tdw is offline
Super Fuzzy Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 14,946
Thanks: 5
Thanked 81 Times in 75 Posts
Rep Power: 10
tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough tdw is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiente View Post
That 40 footer is off the table, then? You're sticking with the steel beastie for now? (I recall it's 34-35 feet or something, which is about as compact as you want in steel).
40'er is dead and buried. Too many things kept turning up until the final cost of the thing would have been absurd compared to what we could have bought in the US.

Ironically, having made the decision to look US the OZ dollar promptly collapsed and the two boats we were looking at shot up by many tens of thousands due to the exchange rate variation. Sadly, a largish chunk of our retirment funds are invested in stocks and shares so we are also not quite as well off as we were a few months ago. Thankfully we transferred a goodly lump into cash earlier this year so its not all doom and gloom.

The Wombette and I then decided that we would take a breather from the boat buying market for a year or two or until the Oz dollar recovers.

The current Womboat is 34'. Working on a 2009 buggering off point we have a boat that is sound, a relatively good performer and just, but only just, big enough for us.

The alterations and updates we are going to do are relatively minor and in the main making her easier to sail, single or double handed, and more self sufficient in power system and food storage capacity.

ZZ - Purchase is not really the problem and if I needed more I could simply go to 8:1 instead of 6:1. Only real problem with 8:1 is the amount of line flopping about in the cockpit . I don't have any great problem hauling the main with 6:1. The problem I do have is releasing the damn thing. (edited )

To be honest, it is more a problem of traveller position than anything else. The Womboats traveller runs across the cockpit just forward of the wheel. For the helmsman to release the main sheet you are required to lean over the pedestal and reach down to the block. It's simply not a good way of doing it and I'm looking to figure how best to overcome the problem.

I'll try and take a couple of shots of what is there now and post later today.

edited - cocked up the ratios. Thanks to HArken website, this is effectively what we have now...

__________________
Andrew B

"Do you think God gets stoned? I think so... Look at the platypus." Robin Williams.

Last edited by tdw; 10-25-2008 at 08:42 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #28  
Old 10-26-2008
Faster's Avatar
Just another Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 15,346
Thanks: 88
Thanked 242 Times in 233 Posts
Rep Power: 10
Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about Faster has a spectacular aura about
W - have a look at these:

Welcome to the Spinlock Website | www.spinlock.co.uk


Friends swear by their ability to easily release under load.. perhaps you can retrofit one of these on your mainsheet block.. sorry about the corrupted link...
__________________
Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

Last edited by Faster; 10-27-2008 at 07:45 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #29  
Old 10-26-2008
sailingdog's Avatar
Telstar 28
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,290
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 13
sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice sailingdog is just really nice
Wombat-

Have you looked at something like this:



The Nash Trigger cleat has a unique mechanism that allows you to release highly loaded lines with complete control. Pulling the sheet down on the trigger trips the pawls and frees the sheet. The trigger serves as a snubbing surface to control release.

In light air, or once the trigger releases the load, the cleat operates like a normal cam cleat. The Trigger cleat is constructed of rugged stainless steel. It is very reliable in heavy air. Trigger cleats are ideal on highly loaded systems like mainsheets, vangs, and even for some halyards. They have developed a cult-like following in some classes where the crew loves the ability to spill the mainsail reliably during close-quarters maneuvering.

Sailnet can probably get them, but I didn't find them on the Sailnet store. Mauri Pro Sailing does have them.
__________________
Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #30  
Old 10-27-2008
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 730
Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 9
knuterikt is on a distinguished road
tdw
I promised you some pictures, here they are.

This picture is taken through the sprayhood (dodger?)


Here is a picture of the lead at the turnbuckle.
The turning blocks at boom neck and chainplate are fastened with dyneema loops. A piece of chock cord is used to lift the lower blocks when there is no sheet load.


Main sheet winch and cheek block


Testing out lead for new configuration, this change will probably also involve switching position of the winches. With this setup both sheets (main & jib) can be handled from the wheel.


I know that a lot of boats with this configuration has 1:2 purchase on the main sheet = faster sheeting if winches give enough purchase. If you have a large crew both winches can be used simultaneously to sheet the main (if you use other winches for the jib)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Perfect Traveler Sam Boyle Racing Articles 0 05-12-2004 09:00 PM
Refrigeration—Part II Selecting a System Tom Wood Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 05-19-2003 09:00 PM
Upgrading Your Mainsail System Sue & Larry Her Sailnet Articles 0 11-17-2002 08:00 PM
Checking the Wheel Steering System Will Keene Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 07-31-2002 09:00 PM
Mainsheet Systems Dan Dickison Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-22-2001 09:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:03 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.