Mainsheet System

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Faster

This sounds interesting.. I'd be concerned if ever both ends were "clutched"... such setups have poor mechanical advantage tackle-wise (relying on the winch for power) and having to dump the mainsheet via clutch could be trouble.. but if only one end is clutched and the working end left winch only, it could work....

The only other concern I'd have would be a kink in the line coming off the winch jamming in the clutch when you're trying to dump the main in a hurry....

hmmmm......good tinkin there F. I hadn't thought about the kinky problem but simply taking a turn on the winch should straighten it out , shouldn't it ?

Need to ponder this.....I really do like the sound of the basic system......certainly has to be better than the old ratchet block....

[Faster]

True, if you remember to keep that last turn on the winch that should take care of that concern.

TD, will you have a place/space on or near the coaming to actually locate the stopper where it will a) have an acceptable lead angle (both to the clutch, and between clutch and winch) b) be easily reached and operated and c) not be a literal PITA (ie screw up some coaming seating space??

From our experience it seems that the boat's cockpit needs to be designed with that sort of sheeting system in mind from the beginning, and may not be easily retrofitted.

[knuterikt]

Originally Posted by Faster
This sounds interesting.. I'd be concerned if ever both ends were "clutched"... such setups have poor mechanical advantage tackle-wise (relying on the winch for power) and having to dump the mainsheet via clutch could be trouble.. but if only one end is clutched and the working end left winch only, it could work....

The only other concern I'd have would be a kink in the line coming off the winch jamming in the clutch when you're trying to dump the main in a hurry....

I have rigged the controll lines on my traveller so they can be released from the wheel. I think that releasing the controll line will do the job if I need to release power.

But it is also necessary to be able to adjust the main sheet rapidly in some cases.

In my current setup I have a cheek block to lead the sheet to the winch.
I have not had any incidents with fouled sheet with this configuration.

The problem with kinks will always be there when a rope has to pass through a block, clutch or something else, the key here is to keep the rope clear without kinks.

The sheet should never be clutched and tailed on the same side simultaneously, but I dont think using clutches only will be so bad.

I'm going to use Lewmar clutches - they can be used as a brake when releasing the rope, so you can controll the rope release without using the winch.

Sailing season is over for me, boat on the hard and mast down for some modifications - so i will not be able to report on the practical use before next summer. But I have seen this setup on several boats and is quite confident that it will work.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Faster

True, if you remember to keep that last turn on the winch that should take care of that concern.

TD, will you have a place/space on or near the coaming to actually locate the stopper where it will a) have an acceptable lead angle (both to the clutch, and between clutch and winch) b) be easily reached and operated and c) not be a literal PITA (ie screw up some coaming seating space??

From our experience it seems that the boat's cockpit needs to be designed with that sort of sheeting system in mind from the beginning, and may not be easily retrofitted.

The flaw in my logic could be in the remembering.......

Too true re the lead angle from the clutch to the winch. This is a very recent concept to me so I'm still very much in planning stage but remember that the Womboat is steel. Fabricating something on which to mount the clutch would not be difficult and I have easy access under that part of the deck or coaming for attachments.

I need to add at least two new winches to the old girl as it is so if I have a problem it will be space for winches.

Provided weather holds I'll be on board tomorrow. Will have a good look then.

Knut - It may well be that I get this done before your winter is over. I'll keep you informed of my progress.

ps - ref the German or Admiral's Cup system.....word is that it was a German boat called Pinta. Not confirmed.

[Valiente]

That 40 footer is off the table, then? You're sticking with the steel beastie for now? (I recall it's 34-35 feet or something, which is about as compact as you want in steel).

[zz4gta]

Why not add a cascade or 2 speed mainsheet system. It's gotta be cheaper than adding 2 winches and clutches.

[tdw]

Originally Posted by Valiente

That 40 footer is off the table, then? You're sticking with the steel beastie for now? (I recall it's 34-35 feet or something, which is about as compact as you want in steel).

40'er is dead and buried. Too many things kept turning up until the final cost of the thing would have been absurd compared to what we could have bought in the US.

Ironically, having made the decision to look US the OZ dollar promptly collapsed and the two boats we were looking at shot up by many tens of thousands due to the exchange rate variation. Sadly, a largish chunk of our retirment funds are invested in stocks and shares so we are also not quite as well off as we were a few months ago. Thankfully we transferred a goodly lump into cash earlier this year so its not all doom and gloom.

The Wombette and I then decided that we would take a breather from the boat buying market for a year or two or until the Oz dollar recovers.

The current Womboat is 34'. Working on a 2009 buggering off point we have a boat that is sound, a relatively good performer and just, but only just, big enough for us.

The alterations and updates we are going to do are relatively minor and in the main making her easier to sail, single or double handed, and more self sufficient in power system and food storage capacity.

ZZ - Purchase is not really the problem and if I needed more I could simply go to 8:1 instead of 6:1. Only real problem with 8:1 is the amount of line flopping about in the cockpit . I don't have any great problem hauling the main with 6:1. The problem I do have is releasing the damn thing. (edited )

To be honest, it is more a problem of traveller position than anything else. The Womboats traveller runs across the cockpit just forward of the wheel. For the helmsman to release the main sheet you are required to lean over the pedestal and reach down to the block. It's simply not a good way of doing it and I'm looking to figure how best to overcome the problem.

I'll try and take a couple of shots of what is there now and post later today.

edited - cocked up the ratios. Thanks to HArken website, this is effectively what we have now...

[Faster]

W - have a look at these:

Welcome to the Spinlock Website | www.spinlock.co.uk


Friends swear by their ability to easily release under load.. perhaps you can retrofit one of these on your mainsheet block.. sorry about the corrupted link...

[sailingdog]

Wombat-

Have you looked at something like this:



The Nash Trigger cleat has a unique mechanism that allows you to release highly loaded lines with complete control. Pulling the sheet down on the trigger trips the pawls and frees the sheet. The trigger serves as a snubbing surface to control release.

In light air, or once the trigger releases the load, the cleat operates like a normal cam cleat. The Trigger cleat is constructed of rugged stainless steel. It is very reliable in heavy air. Trigger cleats are ideal on highly loaded systems like mainsheets, vangs, and even for some halyards. They have developed a cult-like following in some classes where the crew loves the ability to spill the mainsail reliably during close-quarters maneuvering.

Sailnet can probably get them, but I didn't find them on the Sailnet store. Mauri Pro Sailing does have them.

[knuterikt]

tdw
I promised you some pictures, here they are.

This picture is taken through the sprayhood (dodger?)


Here is a picture of the lead at the turnbuckle.
The turning blocks at boom neck and chainplate are fastened with dyneema loops. A piece of chock cord is used to lift the lower blocks when there is no sheet load.


Main sheet winch and cheek block


Testing out lead for new configuration, this change will probably also involve switching position of the winches. With this setup both sheets (main & jib) can be handled from the wheel.


I know that a lot of boats with this configuration has 1:2 purchase on the main sheet = faster sheeting if winches give enough purchase. If you have a large crew both winches can be used simultaneously to sheet the main (if you use other winches for the jib)