Sinking

[tommays]

There are time/temp tables out there

Cold Water Survival

I can tell you from a lifetime of waterskiing and from cleaning my bottom in October water 30 minutes was a long time

And the sea state had to speed things up a lot

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by JohnRPollard

See my note to Labatt earlier this morning.

Thanks John, I'd not seen it in that thread. So do you think it should be standard safety equipment - at least for sailing north of 30? From the story, it seemed like you'd want to be in one even if you're in the flooded cabin.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by bubb2

My take on this, if I have read the CG report correctly. I believe he was dead in the water, that is why they brought the rescue swimmer back on board the Helo and returned latter to pick up the body.

Can't quite tell - but that doesn't hold with what I read (I don't think). If he was alive and alert enough for him to get into the water with the swimmer, unless he was killed when the wave hit the basket - that would be a very sudden demise from other means. Also the swimmer tried to get back to him after his own injury - so it seems that he was still alive at that point. But, obviously, no way to tell for certain.

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by tommays

There are time/temp tables out there

Cold Water Survival

I can tell you from a lifetime of waterskiing and from cleaning my bottom in October water 30 minutes was a long time

And the sea state had to speed things up a lot

Cool. Thanks tom. So it looks like between 3 hours and "indefinitely" - taking into account the other factors. I presume you'd advocate for having a suit aboard for open water - and maybe even water skiing?

[bubb2]

If he was alive, I would want to think they would make a 2sd try before they pick up their swimmer and left.

[bubb2]

Going in the water in those conditions it does not take long to drown.

[smackdaddy]

Good point, bubb. It does seem that however it shakes out the investigation of this one is going to be rough on the CG - rightly or wrongly.

[JohnRPollard]

Originally Posted by smackdaddy

Thanks John, I'd not seen it in that thread. So do you think it should be standard safety equipment - at least for sailing north of 30? From the story, it seemed like you'd want to be in one even if you're in the flooded cabin.

It's hard to say categorically. If you are venturing out in cold waters routinely, far from ready help, it makes sense to have them.

On small boats they are bulky, expensive equipment to have aboard. So I'd weigh the pros/cons/odds. If I had an EPIRB and a good liferaft, and rarely if ever ventured into those waters at that time of year, I'd be comfortable without survival suits aboard.

But if I was a delivery skipper that was often bringing boats south late (or north early) in the season through those or similar waters, I'd give serious thought to investing in a survival suit.

If the boat didn't have a liferaft, and for some reason couldn't get one in time for the voyage, and I had to make the delivery no matter what, I'd definitely want the survival suit as well as a PLB. But that's a lot of hypothetical.

As for those water temps, they may not even have been as warm as the buoy report suggests. I haven't charted their position relative to the buoy, but I seem to recall that buoy is supposed to be in the Gulf Stream, where the water is warmer. But 44004 has been adrift since last March, and I haven't kept track of it's whereabouts.

[smackdaddy]

Cool - thanks again, John. Makes perfect sense. It does sound like a liferaft was worthless on those 50' seas. What a nightmare.

As for 44004 - that was just the closest thing I could see on NOAA to their location. And I did think that those temps seemed warm. The Gulf Stream issue makes sense. I'll do some more digging.