I would be against anything that would discourage people from getting an EPIRB. Makwe taht easy because dumb people might want to do without it and that might be the very thing that saves their life(s)!
What about the 8-year-old kid who starts on his Optimist off his local beach then migrates to something bigger, gets a spot crewing on a racing boat and sails actively with good mentors for 15 years before he gets his own boat. He needs to get a licence?
Yep..even him needs a licence...that is the country law...you sail, you need a licence according to what you sail...my son will have his first licence at 16, now he is proudly sailing with a certificate of competence provided by the Sailing Federation...that would be what the kid in your example needs, that certificate...
Then what about the cruising visitor to the US or Portugal for that matter? What if the country he comes from doesn't have the same licence requirement? Does he have to do a local licence? Or do they just say "Nah, he'll be OK"? And don't say that he's crossed an ocean, he should be good, Ronnie may have made it to your shores!!
Any visitor, and we have many "licence less" sailors from the US here, have come and have gone..the law here is clear..the rules of his country legislation regarding the handling of his boat applies...he can't however operate any other boat than the one he cam in...
Originally Posted by vadimgo
(could not you achieve same purpose by giving them for a test, say, 20 pages of Japanese poetry, and only the most committed would pass the test???)
This you say above, makes absolutely no sense at all...don't joke about our system..I am not joking about yours..ours is done by extremely competent examiners, hired by the NAVY, the material and stuff we leran is actually quite usefull and serves us good...don't like it,. don't eat it..but don't mock it, please..
But, from I’ve experienced,
FOR SURE the cost licensing and enforcing it would be passes on to the boaters.
Our licences are free, you just pay the school of your choice for their time..everything else is free, or almost we pay a 5 euro fee..
FOR SURE all government agencies (And Alex, Navy, Coast guard or in US Department of Homeland Security is a government, call it what you want, it means that Customs, Criminal Police and any State of Federal branch, like the one dealing with taxes will access that database too) will have me on their list as a person licensed to sail which means a person that should be regularly checked for compliance and the fact that his license could be revoked could be used as leverage.
Our licencing is done by an Institute, that has no affiliation to the Governmemnt they apply the law the state sets forth... (its called instituto maritimo portuario). HERE SEE FOR YOURSELF
our licences are for life and not revoked ever...they are a certificate showing you completed a course..guess what..suited for the vessel you operate, the way you operate...
FOR SURE the fees will be increased regularly (So “the quality of services to the boating public could be improved”)
And I WOULD BET MY BOAT they will cause a lot of restrictions on the boating people.
BTW, I really doubt Marinas, Insurers and all the businesses around ask for your license because they consider it good practice. No, they are required, (somebody with more knowledge in the business law would explain it better, but, if the activity you are practicing is licensed by government, you can not do business with unlicensed individuals, that’s it, your contract for boat storage would be invalid …- even if there is no sanctions, there is no protection from the law…)
That again...no sense whatsoever
I would try to summarize my feelings on the issue
Yep, some bad folks could be kept from certain activity by some governing body, but inevitably, it will cause a lot of problems and inconveniences to good people too.
I would rather see once in a while some Sea Ray backing into me at the dock and hope they have sufficient insurance that spent my time and money proving to some bureaucrat I can handle my boat.
(and that was my definition of liberal believes before, as I understood, in US they call it Libertarian…??? )
If licensing of drivers is any reference, its effect on the safety on the roads is really marginal. And I am talking about EU countries where it is really hard to get a driving license.
Again...no sense....I drive in the US, in Brasil, in Argentina, Chile, Colombia you name it....don't even go there....
After reading all of the postings in this thread, I've come to the following conclusions:
1) Boats do fly and fall from the sky.
2) A license should be required in order to breed.
3) Children that go boating should have their parents revoked.
4) We should have outlawed flying in the year 2000 (too many deaths that year).
5) Dogs should have to take a test before they bite humans.
6) Europe is a country.
7) There are 57 States.
8) Boats are not boats…but, comparing boating to planes is fair.
9) All stock brokers used to be “Captains.”
10) If you don't get a license, you can drive a PWC off a dam.
This thread was started by someone expressing their opinions. Opinions are like @ss holes, everyone's got one and they think theirs doesn't stink. If you guys and gals feel so strongly about instituting a boating license or certificate requirement, what have you done to start the process?
Personally, I don't think the answer is licensing. I think there are already enough rules (ie laws) that govern boating. The real problem is the enforcement of the rules.
But, most importantly, you simply can NOT legislate intelligence, common sense, nor experience. If you think a license and taking a test will solve much, let me ask you this, "Why do I have to have Uninsured motorist coverage?" Hmmm...maybe because there are people out there that break the rules... The key is in enforcing the rules that we already have!
Don't get me wrong, I think the @ss hole that zooms around the marina because he likes to see all the pretty masts swing back and forth should be locked up as much as the next guy; but I don't think making him take a test will slow him down any.
However, I do think it would be a good idea to have some sort of Open Ocean certification for boats. If one would elect to get this certification for their boat, the USCG, USCG Auxillary, or another agancy would inspect the boat to make sure it was seaworthy enough and had the right safety equipment. One would need this certificate in order to purchase an EPIRB. I don't think that my idea would get very far though.
CD, Now that I am feeling a little better, (SD was right, I just needed a little medication) let me have another crack at this.
I respect and truly admire your desire to make the world a better place.
I would really like to think that there could be steps taken to make our waterways safer.
Education and experience is what makes a person good at whatever they do. Oftentimes people exhibit a natural talent for certain disciplines and some are better at certain things than others. But most anyone can learn to drive and most everyone can learn to sail. Not sure about flying.
But let me ask you. What makes someone a good driver? If you ask me, the most important aspect is a person's temperament. Followed closely by their experience. Education is close behind.
If you want to see the waterways become safer, then befriend a stupid sailor. If, or should I say when, you come in contact with someone who needs some guidance and support, then give it to them. If they won't be helped then at least warn everybody else to keep an eye out.
Don't continue to live in a world where you can just maintain your little bubble of privacy and isolation and expect your government to protect you from every careless sailor, driver or pet owner.
People can learn to sail without the government's help. They can learn from their dad's. They can learn from their friends or their lovers. They can even learn to sail all by themselves.
But don't try to take away their freedom to learn their own way.
Do you know why we have welfare. We have welfare because we have failed as a decent people.
Families don't take care of families. Neighbors don't take care of their neighbors. Churches are more concerned about doctrine and legalism than about loving and caring for each other.
Even here on SailNet, people are content to judge and ridicule others before taking the time to listen and even pretend to try to make a connection.
We can have debates that go on for days on how to respond to the guy who makes a stupid first post while in the mean time he's already said screw it, I'm just going sailing.
On every level we are failing to take care of our own and You can't legislate the problem away.
The USHGA was the best model I've personally seen where a sport regulated itself. I haven't been involved for many years so I don't know how they are doing now but back in the day. You couldn't fly off a hill anywhere in the area without someone looking for the sticker on your helmet. While you were looking for his.
If we as sailors were better about regulating and supporting each other we could solve the perceived problem ourselves.
Please, don't advocate more government regulation. Let's just each try to be better sailors ourselves. And maybe better people too.
Don't try to legislate morality, and don't put the government in charge of something that we as people should be doing ourselves.
If you want to make the world a better place, then get your hands dirty. Open your hearts and try to understand that we are a pretty crowded little planet here and not everyone looks at things the same.
Now..I posted here in this thread to show what my country does, not to criticize, or even getting criticized by anyone..just as a mere information....don't like it..don't read it..I thought viewing other options would be good for you...I didn't ask you to crticize or vote if its good or not..for me where I live with what we do and the waters we have DAMN RIGHT IS GOOD
I couldn't care less if the US gets a licence or not...really..I don't care..you have other more important things that need fixing before that..I really don't care..I don't even care if McCAin wins or Obama does...I don't...
My post was simply to show what we do, and have and are happy with...why all of the sudden do I get this??
Anybody who forces their children to accompany them on a boat is putting their children in a dangerous situation and the children should promptly be removed from that irresponsible family.
And more kids are killed while riding in cars than with the deadly GUN.So wo need to remove them from cars.The GOVERNMENT sitting service will drop by your house to babysit
train them while your out to the market....For a FEE.
Figures don't lie, but liars are always figuring.
Get real! The odds, and the odds are what we're really talking about here, are that you will be involved in a serious car accident some time in your lifespan. I didn't say injured or killed, I said involved. The odds are that you will never be involved in a serious boating accident in your lifespan.
You need a different argument.
You might look for one in the last thread we had on this....a few months ago!
WTF...most of us, if not all drive a car everyday, how many boaters drive their boat everyday? Come on...are you serious?
I would be for licensing that would produce competent boaters, unlike what Maryland has in place, what a joke. If insurance & marinas would require the documentation as well I think that would help with monitoring it.