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  #231  
Old 11-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
That is the reality of where we are. I have come to apprecaite that there are parts of the country where this is not an issue. However, I have not been so lucky. Many others have not either.

- CD

I think what you are missing CD - is that it we all run into those that can hop into a Searay and go powering around. Doesn't mean they do not know what they are doing. I am willing to bet there is an equal amount of sailors that do spend 40K on a sailboat and didn't know what they were doing. Are you saying speed is the issue here?

Because from what I can tell - I have a license and everyone else on the road does to. People constantly cut me off, zig zag within inches to go flying by me, or stop all traffic in a four lane stretch of road because a school bus is in the opposite lane dropping off children (the law is only those behind the bus not the other opposing lanes).

That is the problem with society today is all this "we have to legislate a mandated license for you to do this that or the other". Why do we do this? Because we like others to take care of the problem for us. When was the last time that you volunteered at your marina to give a lecture on just what ails you in terms of what must be rampant in your neck of the woods. Wouldn't that be more effective and save taxpayers and your fellow boaters the grief, money and aggravation?

If it is really that important to you - then why not YOU take the initiative to setup free or low cost seminars on boating safety and etiquette at your marina instead of trying to force the government (society) to manage your idealism of how things could change. You want change and you can be that Change and do the first step and it won't take an initiative or ballot - educate a few around you and like Obama support - will grow and grow into a more knowledgeable environment. Then this discussion wouldn't be hypothetical and think of the reports from you on how the program works and other sailnetters do it etc...

Boating is recreational - and just because we as sailors do not have 200 HP engines doesn't give us the right to mandate training, licensing, and the likes because a few yahoos.


Don't we already have enough regulation to worry about in our daily lives - why add another for the sake of thinking that mandated licensing will make other boaters be unlike what they probably do when they drive anyways....
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Last edited by artbyjody; 11-05-2008 at 05:18 PM.
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  #232  
Old 11-05-2008
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Originally Posted by N0NJY View Post
This is an excellent point.


So - before you decide it's good to require a license for boating, perhaps you ought to consider how much other stuff you might be affecting...
I am not for licensing or mandating anything where you are simply a danger to yourself, only when you become a danger to others. This insludes the seat belt law, helmets, etc. While I think you should wear them, I certainly do not thionk the government has any right to tell you to wear them.

Same with boating. If your boating and act of piloting could only endanger yourself or those stupid enough to get on with you, I would say it was not a good idea. I do not need the government in my life. However, when someone else can easily endanger me and my family and you and yours, that is an issue.

- CD
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  #233  
Old 11-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Funny. I have the feeling Paul that many people have not seen what we have. The power boat races... the idiots on Sea Rays in Texoma... the Hatteras and sprt fish running you over in S Florida.

I honestly believe there is no way anyone that has been in these shoes of mine would not be for licensing if they had seen what I had. Would it stop the idiots? Nope. But at least it would stop those that did nto know they were idiots - or keep them from buynig a boat in the first place.

- CD

PS Read Rosa's writeup on the Political thread. What a life, eh? And people wonder why we lose it when they bring up Cuba??!@???
Patiently waiting DAD,,,,
At what cost to you? Personally. It is availble for $7000 a boat a year.Not including government {union} cost of living raises....Can you afford to sail at this price?
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  #234  
Old 11-05-2008
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Originally Posted by artbyjody View Post
I think what you are missing CD - is that it we all run into those that can hop into a Searay and go powering around. Doesn't mean they do not know what they are doing. I am willing to bet there is an equal amount of sailors that do spend 40K on a sailboat and didn't know what they were doing. Are you saying speed is the issue here?

Because from what I can tell - I have a license and everyone else on the road does to. People constantly cut me off, zig zag within inches to go flying by me, or stop all traffic in a four lane stretch of road because a school bus is in the opposite lane dropping off children (the law is only those behind the bus not the other opposing lanes).

That is the problem with society today is all this "we have to legislate a mandated license for you to do this that or the other". Why do we do this? Because we like others to take care of the problem for us. When was the last time that you volunteered at your marina to give a lecture on just what ails you in terms of what must be rampant in your neck of the woods. Wouldn't that be more effective and save taxpayers and your fellow boaters the grief, money and aggravation?

If it is really that important to you - then why not YOU take the initiative to setup free or low cost seminars on boating safety and etiquette at your marina instead of trying to force the government (society) to manage your idealism of how things could change. You want change and you can be that Change and do the first step and it won't take an initiative or ballot - educate a few around you and like Obama support - will grow and grow into a more knowledgeable environment. Boating is recreational - and just because we as sailors do not have 200 HP engines doesn't give us the right to mandate training, licensing, and the likes because a few yahoos.


Don't we already have enough regulation to worry about in our daily lives - why add another for the sake of thinking that mandated licensing will make other boaters be unlike what they probably do when they drive anyways....
Funny, Jody, but I thought it was you that was missing the point - and I do not mean that disrespectfully.

Why don't I sit dopwn and educate them? I do - to two little boys and my parents. The point in this that YOU are missing is that the people that would atend my educational class, are the ones that already care about seamanship and right of way and being a good boater. They are not the ones that are the problem. It is the others that would not attend unless forced to that are the problem. Can't you see that?

I have seen it Jody, first hand, many times, people buying these boats with no clue what they are doing and shooting off across the water. I have been cut off and done emergency manuevers to avoid them. I am not exhagerating, Jody. Ask Paul. He will have seen the same.

I strongly believe that the people that operate in this manner would and will have no intention of attending my course since they have done nothing to better their understanding... not even a book with basic rules of the road. No, it has to be mandated and required.

- CD
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  #235  
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Back to COST..
$7000 A YEAR PER BOAT.And licencing problem is solved....

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  #236  
Old 11-05-2008
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Originally Posted by travler37 View Post
Patiently waiting DAD,,,,
At what cost to you? Personally. It is availble for $7000 a boat a year.Not including government {union} cost of living raises....Can you afford to sail at this price?
My Dumbass Comments
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My
I do not understand the $7,000? Where did you come up with that figure? You assume the little black box is the only answer? Nah. I do not agree with that. I think a license taht you carry on board as with your USCG cert would be fine. When you screw up or break the rules and get pulled over (which happens a lot where I am from), they check license. Maybe they do random checks like the USCG on safety?

- CD
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  #237  
Old 11-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
It was the education, Mark, that made you competent. Not everyone has a competent grandfather to walk them through this. And Mark, as hard as it might be to believe this, some people simply do not care and will not care unless forced to. They will not learn the rules until forced to. The license, is a verification of your education. It is meant to make sure you have at least some mastery of the craft you will soon pilot. It is not meant to stop stupidity, it is meant to educate those that pilot the water with the basics and make sure they know them.

Regarding the costs... does it matter? THey will never do it. It will never happen. In that respect, I guess our little conversation is hypothetical. The reason they do not do it has nothing to do with what should or should not be done. It has nothing ot do with civil liverties. It is simply the old mighty dollar and a massive loss of sales for Sea Ray. "What? What do you mean I have to have a license and know how to run this? I can drive a car, can't I?"

Pfft.

- CD
THEY WILL NEVER DO IT.....
Do you live under a rock somewhere...Or not inclined to wonder why the cost of a loaf of bread is so hiigh?????Transportation costs...They allready have my friend.

As to my qusstion that all say will never happen in my world{trucking}.It is going to and we the people will pay for it.....

Now i put it to you bluntly....The cost of your program will cost every boat owner without exception no matter what size...Because uncle has to be able to plot this on there chart...

The cost will be $7000 PER boat.Does not matter what size[Read tender}.They need to chart all of them.....

It can and will be done in the stroke of a pen if you do not think it through...and all will think it will be a good idea......

Now think of the 100% yaught tax in the 70's...Darn...all the SHEEPLE thought that was a good idea to...............
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  #238  
Old 11-05-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
I do not understand the $7,000? Where did you come up with that figure? You assume the little black box is the only answer? Nah. I do not agree with that. I think a license taht you carry on board as with your USCG cert would be fine. When you screw up or break the rules and get pulled over (which happens a lot where I am from), they check license. Maybe they do random checks like the USCG on safety?

- CD

Dad,
The $7000 figure is what the it will cost me to installl an maintain....like paying for a security system...for a year so the DOT can access my drivers hours of service
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  #239  
Old 11-05-2008
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Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post

Why don't I sit dopwn and educate them? I do - to two little boys and my parents. The point in this that YOU are missing is that the people that would atend my educational class, are the ones that already care about seamanship and right of way and being a good boater. They are not the ones that are the problem. It is the others that would not attend unless forced to that are the problem. Can't you see that?
I don't think so there mate. A low cost or free seminar hmmm How many courses are out there for getting certifications? Many people think about attending them (as in myself would) but the costs is prohibitive or the scheduling is at the worst time etc... You are assuming your audience would be those that do not need it, but actually the ones that already have a gist on handling a boat, right of way etc - wouldn't be interested in it to begin with.

But you'll never know who actually attends, until you actually try it

[quote=Cruisingdad;396985]
I strongly believe that the people that operate in this manner would and will have no intention of attending my course since they have done nothing to better their understanding... not even a book with basic rules of the road. No, it has to be mandated and required.




And even if they were licensed - the types you describe would do the same behavior. just like drivers do thinking because they have a big truck, a fast car, or that they are just entitled - will speed, not use turn signals, etc... those are the types you are trying educate and they have already been "educationally endorsed" but choose to do it anyways.
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  #240  
Old 11-05-2008
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Originally Posted by travler37 View Post
Dad,
The $7000 figure is what the it will cost me to installl an maintain....like paying for a security system...for a year so the DOT can access my drivers hours of service
Honestly, I think a system like that would not work well for a boat. And who is to know that the person driving it actually is the licensed captain and not someone else?

- CD
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