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  #321  
Old 11-07-2008
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By the way, let me clear something.

Amateur Radio isn't "just a hobby". Certainly there are some who do nothing at all but get on the radio and jabber-jaw to buddies in another state, or country.

However, note that I stated "Amateur Radio Service". I said that for a reason.

Under ham radio, we operate, certainly to experiment and for fun, but we also provide a SERVICE.

Most of you are familiar with stuff like Sailmail and Airmail, Pactor I, II, and III, Packet Radio and Single Sideband. All of those things were invented by Amateur Radio Operators. So was RTTY (Radio Teletype). So was Amplitude Modulation, Frequency Modulation and Phase Modulation.

We have satellites in space - so NASA ain't the only ones capable of launching such things and the various governments around the world don't have one thing over Amateur Radio when it comes to communication.

Finally, and most importantly, the Amateur Radio SERVICE does serve the public by providing a conduit through which MANY messages pass daily.

I think some of you might be aware that the very last "Telegram" through Western Union was sent a few years ago. They no longer do that service. Amateur Radio still provides, for FREE that service and we practice it.

We have the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (I'm a member). The Radio Amateur Communications Emergency Service (A government MANDATED and FUNDED program to assist local authorities in disasters, attacks and other such emergencies). We have Skywarn, a National Weather Service program in which Hams play a vital role in assisting in spotting tornadoes and severe weather, doing measurements and helping to WARN people of incoming weather. (we have prevented many deaths because we warned small towns before they were hit by tornadoes). I'm a member of Skywarn as well.

So... the point to this is, you are equating a radio set and some 30-something-year old geek sitting in his mama's basement with ham radio and then comparing it to boaters who are sitting in a slip, or mooring someplace in the middle of nowhere.

They simply are not the same thing.
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  #322  
Old 11-07-2008
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Rick,

Thanks for the information on the ITU, I did not know that part of it. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. As I stated earlier, I do believe we are way over-regulated in the US. I would love to see many of the ordinances, laws, mandatory licensing and certification go away. However, in this case; and it pains me to say it, I have to come down on the side of some proof of education/knowledge of the "rules of the road" before anyone with a gold card can pull out of a marina with a 10 ton bomb.

Thanks for your respectful and well thought out arguements,

Michael
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  #323  
Old 11-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxLnghrn View Post
Rick,

Thanks for the information on the ITU, I did not know that part of it. I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. As I stated earlier, I do believe we are way over-regulated in the US. I would love to see many of the ordinances, laws, mandatory licensing and certification go away. However, in this case; and it pains me to say it, I have to come down on the side of some proof of education/knowledge of the "rules of the road" before anyone with a gold card can pull out of a marina with a 10 ton bomb.

Thanks for your respectful and well thought out arguements,

Michael
I agree that many of our laws should have a "Sunset" limit on them. With them expiring after X number of years.
But then again I feel that anyone who purchases/charters a vessel should show some training on Marine safety and a knowledge of the rules. A one or two day course should cover this. Even if you have to into their brains.
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  #324  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N0NJY View Post
By the way, let me clear something.

Amateur Radio isn't "just a hobby". Certainly there are some who do nothing at all but get on the radio and jabber-jaw to buddies in another state, or country.

However, note that I stated "Amateur Radio Service". I said that for a reason.

Under ham radio, we operate, certainly to experiment and for fun, but we also provide a SERVICE.

Most of you are familiar with stuff like Sailmail and Airmail, Pactor I, II, and III, Packet Radio and Single Sideband. All of those things were invented by Amateur Radio Operators. So was RTTY (Radio Teletype). So was Amplitude Modulation, Frequency Modulation and Phase Modulation.

We have satellites in space - so NASA ain't the only ones capable of launching such things and the various governments around the world don't have one thing over Amateur Radio when it comes to communication.

Finally, and most importantly, the Amateur Radio SERVICE does serve the public by providing a conduit through which MANY messages pass daily.

I think some of you might be aware that the very last "Telegram" through Western Union was sent a few years ago. They no longer do that service. Amateur Radio still provides, for FREE that service and we practice it.

We have the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (I'm a member). The Radio Amateur Communications Emergency Service (A government MANDATED and FUNDED program to assist local authorities in disasters, attacks and other such emergencies). We have Skywarn, a National Weather Service program in which Hams play a vital role in assisting in spotting tornadoes and severe weather, doing measurements and helping to WARN people of incoming weather. (we have prevented many deaths because we warned small towns before they were hit by tornadoes). I'm a member of Skywarn as well.

So... the point to this is, you are equating a radio set and some 30-something-year old geek sitting in his mama's basement with ham radio and then comparing it to boaters who are sitting in a slip, or mooring someplace in the middle of nowhere.

They simply are not the same thing.
Rick,
Please do not take offense of my use of the word hobby. I have worked in the past with HF radio operators in emergency situations and have nothing but the highest respect for ya'll. I plan someday on gaining my own license. I absolutely meant no disrespect.
Michael
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  #325  
Old 11-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
I agree that many of our laws should have a "Sunset" limit on them. With them expiring after X number of years.
But then again I feel that anyone who purchases/charters a vessel should show some training on Marine safety and a knowledge of the rules. A one or two day course should cover this. Even if you have to into their brains.

If you want to rent a truck to move, you have to show a driver's license and a credit card.

If you want to rent a bareboat - as I understand it (since I've never done this and likely would not) you show them your credit card - and perhaps a certificate from US Sail or ASA or someone who gave you one, and that's usually sufficient to get you a boat.

Of course, you're paying a hell of a lot more than 19 bucks a day for a boat, aren't you?

If I want to jump into a tractor-trailer rig and haul ass across country, I have to show them a Commercial Driver's License. I don't have one now (or ever) since I don't need one.

Can I drive a tractor-trailer rig? You betcha I can. I have plenty of experience in it. Can I LEGALLY haul a load across the country? Nope.

How much regulation was put on that industry? A lot.

Ok.. let's apply it now to boats.

If I want to rent a big boat to take my wife across a long stretch of ocean, can I do it right now? I probably can, even without experience. I could likely find the right people, for the right amount of money and get it done. Could I do it? UNLIKELY without "learning on the job" and being a wee bit dangerous.

Could I rent a boat and carry paying passengers? no way. no one would rent me the boat for that. it's not legal.

I guess it comes down to this.... if it is a paying service, you have to be licensed. If you're out on the highway, everyone has to have a license anyway (BUT THEY DON'T which some of you fail to mention).

If you're going to be boating around out in a big ocean this is a waste of effort, time and definitely will be a waste of money.

Should everyone be able to prove they know the rules of the road and are safe? Yep.

Do I want to have to pay in taxes to make sure? Hell no.

Licensing is a GOVERNMENT thing. Keep the government OUT at all costs, or you all will end up regretting it in the long run.

Simple and as common sense as that. If someone is operating a boat in a reckless manner and you see them, and DO NOT take the time to contact the authorities then you are as culpable as they are for not trying to get them stopped. YOU each of you, has a moral obligation to help protect lives and property when you want to believe this or not. If you do nothing but bitch and moan about "how there ought to be a law" then you've done nothing but waste breath, air and time.

My suggestion is, especially to CD, if indeed there are people are dangerous as you say, that you ought to be documenting the incidents and making police reports. Asking to create a law (which is what you will have to do to get licensing or mandatory safety classes put in place) is the FINAL step to fixing the problem.

As I stated before, self policing goes a very long way in any field or industry to keep things "clean".

Do it yourself before you ask the government to do it for you and above all, remember, you're PART of the government.
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  #326  
Old 11-07-2008
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Hey NONJY - where do you ski?
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  #327  
Old 11-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxLnghrn View Post
Rick,
Please do not take offense of my use of the word hobby. I have worked in the past with HF radio operators in emergency situations and have nothing but the highest respect for ya'll. I plan someday on gaining my own license. I absolutely meant no disrespect.
Michael

I was not and did not take it that way. I posted that message for clarification only.

I have a "title" with the American Radio Relay League. I ALSO belong to the ARRL Field Organization called "Technical Specialist". My job, such as it is with the ARRL (again, MORE volunteer work) is to assist people with technical information, installations, radios, antennas and anything that helps them follow the FCC regulations as well as keep their transmissions "clean" and prevent interference to other Amateurs or other services. I don't get a lot of requests for assistance because most folks are pretty good about it.

But, one other thing that is stated clearly in the FCC regulations are:

Quote:
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
I take these things seriously and would hope that other amateurs do as well.. besides, it would be nice to add a few dozen or hundred more hams to the field

You're all invited. lol
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Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

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  #328  
Old 11-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Hey NONJY - where do you ski?
I don't ski. I sword fight.
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Rick Donaldson, NØNJY

moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
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  #329  
Old 11-07-2008
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Well there you go. My point exactly.

Cutlass, saber, foil? Or just a big freakin' medieval hunk of metal?
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  #330  
Old 11-07-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Well there you go. My point exactly.

Cutlass, saber, foil? Or just a big freakin' medieval hunk of metal?
All of the above.

Ever heard of the Society for Creative Anachronism?

It's a "Medieval Re-Creationist Society" where the folks involved "recreate various portions of the middle ages... not the plagues and poverty, just the good parts!"

Haha. I spent twenty years of my military career traveling about, usually carrying my armor and weapons to various parts of the world to demonstrate and practice with others. Over the years we put on a lot of shows - all of course not associated with my actual JOB - but for fun, and I learned several weapon types.

My armor currently is retired to the Armor Tree in my rec room and I don't do it any more (except on occasion to show up with the youngsters that are doing it now, and kick some of their asses to show that old people can still win a fight.....)

Why?
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moˈloːn laˈbe!

It's better to be hated for who you are, than to be loved for who you're not.

Let those winds of change blow over my head,
I'd rather die while I'm living than live while I'm dead - Jimmy Buffet
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