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Tartan / C&C issues

55K views 228 replies 50 participants last post by  Mipcar 
#1 ·
Hello all- I am obviously new to the forum so be kind. I have just come back to sailing after finally getting my family interested. As of yet I only charter boats, but as most of you can understand, I have boat fever almost continuously. Although I was only interested in a coastal cruiser like a beneteau or catalina since I wasn't going to be doing much open water cruising, a friend has me gotten me interested in perfomance boats, and after some research I really like C&C 99 or 110....unfortunately, I have been reading about some hull failures here and at other internet sites. My question from you more experienced folks is: how bad is this problem? Would I be better off buying a boat 1-2 years old to make sure it doesn't have the problem?

Thanks for your help...and sorry if this is the wrong place to post this question.
 
#2 ·
Are you crazy????

Don't you know you can't say the T word?? or the C word????

Are you really willing to "disappear"???

Vito Corleone will come after you....PLEASE..PLEASE...don't mention hull failure and T ot C word in the same sentence....you'll be shot down like a dog....
 
#3 ·
I would think that you would be better buying a 3-4 year old boat so that there is a better chance that problems with the laminate would begin to show to a very competent marine surveyor.

Jeff
 
#5 ·
Thanks.

I would think that you would be better buying a 3-4 year old boat so that there is a better chance that problems with the laminate would begin to show to a very competent marine surveyor.

Jeff
Jeff - I guess from reading the giulietta's response I hit a nerve. I have done lots of searches on this and other forums. I cannot tell if this issue is an isolated event with a very vocal minority or a real significant issue. That was the basis of my question to you oldsters on the board. Again, I apologize if this issue has been discussed to death previously...I am just trying to get the straight scoop.
 
#6 ·
From what I have been able to observe, your first thought is the most likely. I think the issues have involved a handful of boats and are isolated incidents. However, I would not purchase a new Tartan or C&C. I say that because of the financial issues the company appears to be facing rather than a because of a quality problem.
Just my $ .02
 
#7 · (Edited)
Mark...we had a pretty good thread here, about that..that thread disappeared mysteriously. I have reasons to suspect why, but I am just me...and it's not Sailnet's fault.

THERE ARE ISSUES with newer boats and delamination. That is all I am saying.

I saw real boats with real issues, not photos on a web page.

If it was me...I'd buy another boat, or and old T or C, before the year 1999.

Sorry can't say more....I see Tom Hagen coming down the road in a black Packard..gotta go...

 
#8 ·
The 110's were made of typical glass until about 02. Some of the Tartans were also made of glass from 99 to about 02-03 that were made by the current ownership fof T&C. For me any how, boats made from about 05 or there abouts on in epoxy, I would worry to a point re the delam issues, and one that I know of with a gray deck instead of the bright white that it should be, due to more than likely a color mix issue at the factory, with that owner getting a number of different and funky reasons as to why it is gray, not white.

The 99's and 115's were all made of epoxy, not sure about the 121's, then you are not asking about them.

Other wise, to a degree, it will be buyer beware, as Novus has tried to sell the T&C lines assets to another buyer, they backed out. Leaving owners with out a warrenty, along with leaving the debts to the old company etc.

I also believe that if you really search, the BIG thread in the buyer area is still there.

Marty
 
#9 ·
Thanks to all. I did find the big thread but really couldn't make out how bad the situation was...thanks for the input and again, I apologize for asking this old somewhat redundant question. It is sad that brand with an otherwise seaworthy history seems to be in such trouble.
 
#10 ·
Actually Mark,

If C&C any how does go BK, it would NOT be the first time, the original owners BK'd twice, first time due to a fire?!?! next due to other issues, that is when Novus bought the name etc, and started up within the Tartan group. This is the short 1-2 sentence history, I am sure if you really wanted the history, there is probably a web page with it, maybe eve in Wikapedia.

marty
 
#13 ·
Mark,
I bought a new Tartan 3700 this year, and could not be more satisfied with its sailing performance and overall quality. Before buying, I compared it to the Sabre 386. I preferred the Tartan because of the rig, interior accommodation, and overall quality. We really like the carbon rig. It has a self-tacking sail, roller furling reacher and a pocket boom that makes handling of the main really easy. The Tartan staff has given us good support. We enjoy the boat.
 
#16 ·
So...you decide to start posting now..and on this thread....curious..never saw you here before...I find that odd..your first post...I don't know...

In the one Tartan thread that disappeared..we had a lot of "satisfied" owners that posted only there, only once...almost looked like an "inside" job...and same speech...

Are you an "insider"??? Who are you? Can I see your boat sailing??

How do we know you are a legit owner and no someone (with side interests) pretending to be one??

To me...you are not who you pretend to be....I got caluses now..I figured it all.....

What I think Tartan did with Sailnet is a shame....but I think they forced Sailnet to remove that thread...

Sorry..gotta go....el Don is coming....
 
#14 ·
Jim, I have a question for you.
Were you aware of the many ongoing litigations that Tartan and C&C are involved in before you made your purchase?
Have you had any warrenty issues that require addressing?
 
#20 ·
Until we can comment, we won't. We hope to be able to give you some direction on this by tomorrow afternoon, but the matter is out of our hands.

Do not expect or ask for any more of a response until then. You won't get one from any of us.

- CD
Well, that doesn't mean the rest of us can't comment.

That thread contained a healthy debate about the merits of Tartans new construction methods and materials, problems that some owners encountered, issues with warranty service, and serious financial questions about the solvency of the company -- evidenced by legal judgments and failed M&A activity.

No disrespect to you CD, or any of the moderators, but this censorship is a load of CRAP.

I've got news for Tartan. That thread better reappear or every time anyone asks about advice concerning a new Tartan purchase, I am going to urge them in the strongest language possible to avoid dealing with the company. And this is coming from someone that WAS seriously considering purchasing one of their larger models.
 
#23 ·
CD—

Why would you pull a thread that had raised very important and valid issues about the integrity of two very well respected sailboat marques, C&C and Tartan, as well as the integrity of the people and companies involved with those brands. The lawsuits are a matter of open legal public record. The problems with some of the newer epoxy-resin hulls is also pretty well known and publicly acknowledged through the marine press. Also, the company's efforts to sell just the assets and remove warranty liability from the new company is pretty slimy IMHO.

Why would Sailnet buckle to any pressure from Tartan/C&C to remove the thread?
 
#24 ·
JP- I agree there was a LOT of useful info in that old thread. There was also a lot of speculation, some justified some maybe not. My guess is there was a threat of a aw suit and now sailnet attorneys are looking it over to determine risk. That basically means if there is ANY risk the attorneys will recommend that thread not come back, or if it does it will be heavily edited. Just my $.02...
 
#25 ·
"if" the BIG thread that I am recalling being around is the one being disCUSSed, then yes, there was posters that were probably a little to far over the line to some degree in what they said, ie SN or the poster could get sued for inflammatory type comments.

There where a few folks that wanted to see the demise of Novus because of said words, others like myself, saw some issues, hoped they fixed them, and continued building boats using cutting edge techniques. When one does this, yes, there could be some issues.......back peddling etc in the how you go about things. so any way, enough of my politicing, I usually try to some degree to stay out of that type of thread........so why am I here too?!?!?!?!?!

Marty
 
#27 ·
It is rather ironic that the thread which disappeared contained a lot of hotly contested debate about whether tartan quality had dropped, and whether the company was acting in a stand up fashion to honor warranty problems or whether they were trying to avoid responsibility to owners of boats which had failures. As I recall, there were many posters against but a vocal minority "for tartan." The fact that Tartan appears to have taken legal action against sailnet to suppress open discussion by a sailors community about the integrity of the company seems to support the argument of those who argued that Tartan is a company to be avoided, no?
 
#29 ·
AJ..I didn't say they did..I said, I think that is what happened..but also said I may be speculating...

None of the mods responds to me about this issue, so I don't know...

I see no reason other than outside pressure, for a site to remove a thread, warning people on a product, that was started with the aim of informing.

I am sad it ahppened, as I did see on of their boats and how it was finished, done and dealt by Tartan (or lack of therof)..

So please let's not assume that it was that that happen, BUT that is what I think...and think only

I'll wait to see.

But damn..if that is true..expect me to bad mouth them left and right...yes I will...
 
#31 ·
Something I will point out about another forum I go to, and moderate on, with over 200K reg users, not that that many are using that forum, kinda like here, probably 10% of the reg users really use it if that!

Anyway, One of those forums rules is a person(s) can not talk about a lawsuit that they are involved in with a given company, or write/talk about it if they have talke with an attorney or equal, such as BBB's help.

This may very well be why among other things, that that thread has disappeared among other reasons.

In the meantime, to a degree, it is probably best for us to try not to guess too much, because it could be some other issue, such as SN's owners being brought to trail as a hostile witness or equal or similar type reason.

Personally, this might be a better thread to temp close until the reason is brought forth etc to keep the jawing to a minimum IMHO.

marty
 
#32 ·
Man, that Giu dude is always trying to stir things up. I say ban his ass*.

(*I can't remember his donkey's name - but it's been posting nothing but nonsense. Can't even photoshop worth a crap. You must admit though, pretty smart donkey.)
 
#33 ·
I am jumping on here to say that there will be no resolution to the "missing thread" this week. I have had several discussions with Sailnet management about this and expect a resolution by close of business Friday. Until then, I will say no more, nor will I encourage speculation but be assured we will let you know the resolution as soon as we have one. Thanks in advance for your patience.
 
#34 ·
Thanks for the update cam. :) I do wonder if the pressure Tartan/C&C has applied is due to the recent news of a possible sale.
 
#36 ·
It is most regrettable that this site has been hijacked by a few people with an obvious grudge (and probably a financial reason) against Tartan. Camaradarie, Sailing Dog, Giulietta and others are clearly hopelessly biased observers. They spend their lives making postings on this site, and love to bash Taratn. WE NEED TO ASK WHY? None are Tartan owners!!!!!!Obviously, a sensible person doesn't spend their idle hours chasing down negative stuff on someone for no reason.

I am a proud Tartan owner and am sick of the nonsense on this site. I am interested in HEARING FROM TARTAN OWNERS, not you screwballs who like to spend your lives spewing negative stuff.
 
#38 ·
It is most regrettable that this site has been hijacked by a few people with an obvious grudge (and probably a financial reason) against Tartan. Camaradarie, Sailing Dog, Giulietta and others are clearly hopelessly biased observers. They spend their lives making postings on this site, and love to bash Taratn. WE NEED TO ASK WHY? None are Tartan owners!!!!!!Obviously, a sensible person doesn't spend their idle hours chasing down negative stuff on someone for no reason.

I am a proud Tartan owner and am sick of the nonsense on this site. I am interested in HEARING FROM TARTAN OWNERS, not you screwballs who like to spend your lives spewing negative stuff.
Really?? Go chew on a tyre..

What financial reason?? I am from Europe, I don't really care about Tartan or not..I SAW REAL BOATS, WITH REAL ISSUES.your beloved company didn't solve address or helped...

how do you know that I am a screwball..you seem to be one, not me...the boat I chose isn't falling appart, and the manufacturer serves me right with assistance, guarantee issues and any other stuff I throw at him...something YOU, can't claim, do or request...do I need to own a Tartan to prove me right?? nope...and to be honest...this puts you in the screw deprtment..not me..

By the way do you know there are ways to see if you are who you really..and your IP can be checked? And that can be compared with the IP's of the other "loyal" Tartan owners of the "twilight post"??

Let me be honest..I don't think you are who you claim...I really think you are someone at Tartan, or with interest in Tartan..

See we all are know here, we have posted our boats and live as a comunity here, we show who we are..we show our boats...

You...you're just whole bunch of black letters in a white background..you're not even who you claim to be...

Beat it Sputnik...you have nothing positive to add here..get a life...or better..prove me wrong....Mr. Tartan...

Each day, a brand I actually liked is getting deeper and deeper in my consideration...what a shame...it's sleeze ball moves like this that sink your company.
 
#39 ·
Cam...is it possible to sail in Ohio? Why do you say Ohio, are you implying this guy is actually someone from Tartan??

Were the other Tartan "defenders" from the same address?? CAn you compare IP addresses?

Love to see his address compared with the other "crusades"..
It's funny, when these guys come here, I allways have a gut feeling they are the tartan owner guy, the other one from Novis or someone else in that company...I really do. I'd love to prove that
 
#40 · (Edited)
I don't know or care what all the fuss is about. If every manufacturer of sail boats took umbrage of what a few here on Sailnet wrote, this site would not exist. Two come to mind and they are Hunter and Catalina, they get hammered here as does most every brand and one time or other. I don’t know of a production boat ever built, that did not have a build problem at some stage, and any perspective buyer needs to be aware of any short comings. This is just t My Humble Opinion with none existent expertise. But if I knew something as fact, who is to say that fact can’t be passed onto a fellow sailors who ask questions.
And If not fact but concern, it may enable the asker, to delve deeper before making an informed decision.
 
#42 ·
Sailing Dog has averaged 30 postings a day on this site! What kind of life is that???
He apparently owns something called a Telstar 28, and like to act as an authority on other boats. MAKING FALSE STATEMENTS REPEATEDLY DOESN'T MAKE THEM TRUE.

Before I bought my Tartan 3700, I checked out the company extensively because of all of the false statements that you and others have made on this site. I went to the factory 3 times and spoke with the Tartan management.

Tartan has responded timely to each warranty claim I have made since I bought my boat. I couldn't be more pleased with the boat.

I think that you and others on this site have an ax to grind.

By the way, who are you Sailing Dog?
 
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