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  #41  
Old 11-21-2008
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Originally Posted by mike dryver View Post
don't like a sole to rise and fall as i walk on it.
Mike...
That helps prevent shin splints!!!

Paul
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  #42  
Old 11-21-2008
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By the way, regarding the sole rising and falling, I should tell you that in most production boats you are actually walking on a liner. It is solid. The sole that you see does not actually suporrt you. It is just for looks. Take the screws out of it and it is a solid fiberglass liner you will see.

- CD
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  #43  
Old 11-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
That has not been my impression at all. For the record, I do not work for Catalina. I get nothing out of them. But let me tell you what I have seen, first hand, with the other builders. Lets start with Hunter:

I personally have seen more than one Hunter where the glass was SO thin you could see daylight plainly shinning through. Of course it cracked, as did the arch. They also put cabinetry over the access for the chain plates The problem is that in order to service them once you get a leak, you have to pull the entire cabinets off. Access to systems is atrocious and furniture placement makes any altercations a major overhaul. Now you say ignore that? Ignore how many years of building boats like that because the new ones are great? Hmph. I am not discounting it, but I certainly have not bought it hook, line, and sinker. Only time will tell. I will say that of all three of the manufacturers, Hunter seems (at this moment) to be making the best effort for change. But after that many years of building VERY poor quality boats - they have a lot to prove and can only go up. - CD
I will grant you that, when compared to the traditional cruising sailboat, many of the Hunters that were built during the '90s appear to have had corners cut in their build and fit-out. I think this was the case of many of the builders of that era; they were all trying to survive with growing competition in a shrinking market. Many of them didn't make it. Those that did survive mostly did so by finding the right level of build quality for the intended purpose of the boat.

It seems that Hunter concentrated most of its efforts in the 90s on building boats intended for day sailing, bay explorations and coastal cruising. They recognized that they did not have to add extra beef that was not required, and they focused on making sailing very comfortable, very easy and very affordable. In doing so, they produced boats that met the needs of the vast majority of the market. They survived.

Many of these boats, which were designed and built for coastal use, have made circumnavigations, they continue to do major bluewater passages, and they are frequently seen arriving in and departing from anchorages around the world. Are the early Hunters the best boat for that purpose? Certainly not, nor are many of the other boats that are out doing major offshore passages.

In the late 90s, Hunter brought in Glenn Henderson to lead their design team, and he has now completed the replacement of the entire fleet. Most of the boats are still designed primarily as local or coastal cruisers, with the emphasis on comfort and ease of handling. The quality of build, the fit-out and the finish have all improved, and the access to systems and the ease of maintenance are much simpler (as is the case with almost all modern boats).

The Hunter 49 is the first production boat that Hunter has designed specifically for offshore passagemaking. While it is very commodious and comfortable, and can also be a great coastal cruiser or a wonderful floating condo, it has already proven itself to be a very capable bluewater boat. In January 2008, Mike Harker completed a circumnavigation in his new Hunter 49, logging over 26,000 miles in eleven months and spending nearly six of those months in port. Not a bad feat for an able-bodied crew, but Mike did the voyage solo, and he is a paraplegic.

The 49 is not a slug either; I have just read that in this month's Carib 1500, a Hunter 49 was the 5th boat across the line in a fleet of 50, and the first in the 'Cruising Boat' category. More than half the fleet was over 50 feet in length and included some of the best names in sailboat racing. The Hunter 49 finished in 8 days, 1 hour, and behind only four 'Race Class' boats: a Santa Cruz 52, a Halberg-Rassy 62, a Halberg-Rassey 49 ketch and a Swan 58. Some of the 'Race Class' boats that arrived after the Hunter 49 were a MacGregor 65, a Catana 50, a Beneteau 57, a Jeanneau 57, a Farr 50, a Tayana 58, a Taswell 58 and a Hinkley 51.

Now I know many here bash the BOTY Awards, but I would be remiss if I did not point out that Cruising World named the Hunter 49 its 2008 Boat of the Year - Best Full-Size Cruiser. Also, if you care to count ad pages, Hunter less space in Cruising World and in Sail than many of the boats that didn't even get on the also-ran list.
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  #44  
Old 11-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sequitur View Post
I will grant you that, when compared to the traditional cruising sailboat, many of the Hunters that were built during the '90s appear to have had corners cut in their build and fit-out. I think this was the case of many of the builders of that era; they were all trying to survive with growing competition in a shrinking market. Many of them didn't make it. Those that did survive mostly did so by finding the right level of build quality for the intended purpose of the boat.

It seems that Hunter concentrated most of its efforts in the 90s on building boats intended for day sailing, bay explorations and coastal cruising. They recognized that they did not have to add extra beef that was not required, and they focused on making sailing very comfortable, very easy and very affordable. In doing so, they produced boats that met the needs of the vast majority of the market. They survived.

Many of these boats, which were designed and built for coastal use, have made circumnavigations, they continue to do major bluewater passages, and they are frequently seen arriving in and departing from anchorages around the world. Are the early Hunters the best boat for that purpose? Certainly not, nor are many of the other boats that are out doing major offshore passages.

In the late 90s, Hunter brought in Glenn Henderson to lead their design team, and he has now completed the replacement of the entire fleet. Most of the boats are still designed primarily as local or coastal cruisers, with the emphasis on comfort and ease of handling. The quality of build, the fit-out and the finish have all improved, and the access to systems and the ease of maintenance are much simpler (as is the case with almost all modern boats).

The Hunter 49 is the first production boat that Hunter has designed specifically for offshore passagemaking. While it is very commodious and comfortable, and can also be a great coastal cruiser or a wonderful floating condo, it has already proven itself to be a very capable bluewater boat. In January 2008, Mike Harker completed a circumnavigation in his new Hunter 49, logging over 26,000 miles in eleven months and spending nearly six of those months in port. Not a bad feat for an able-bodied crew, but Mike did the voyage solo, and he is a paraplegic.

The 49 is not a slug either; I have just read that in this month's Carib 1500, a Hunter 49 was the 5th boat across the line in a fleet of 50, and the first in the 'Cruising Boat' category. More than half the fleet was over 50 feet in length and included some of the best names in sailboat racing. The Hunter 49 finished in 8 days, 1 hour, and behind only four 'Race Class' boats: a Santa Cruz 52, a Halberg-Rassy 62, a Halberg-Rassey 49 ketch and a Swan 58. Some of the 'Race Class' boats that arrived after the Hunter 49 were a MacGregor 65, a Catana 50, a Beneteau 57, a Jeanneau 57, a Farr 50, a Tayana 58, a Taswell 58 and a Hinkley 51.

Now I know many here bash the BOTY Awards, but I would be remiss if I did not point out that Cruising World named the Hunter 49 its 2008 Boat of the Year - Best Full-Size Cruiser. Also, if you care to count ad pages, Hunter less space in Cruising World and in Sail than many of the boats that didn't even get on the also-ran list.
Michael,

As I said, I think of all the builders Hunter seem to be making the best changes. My opinions of many of their previous boats are quite low. That it is a coastal cruiser is no excuse for access to things like Chain Plates where they will leak eventually whether a circumnavigator or lakeside Condo. But it seems they realized their errors and have tried to make some changes.

Regarding taking one of these boats around the world, etc - the difficulty I have encountered (just to take her cruising) is the major changes/refit to make it practical. This might include cabinety, storage and access, fuel, etc. At some point you have reached the point (financially) where you have spent more on the boat than if you had bought a boat specifically meant for that purpose. I also do not like the way (I think all production boats) leave their rudder exposed. using a Tayana, as the contrasting example, the rudder is very well protected from the encapsulated keel that is SOLID - and I mean SOLID on the hull.

You know, Micheal, I spend more time on this board defending productio nboats than any 20 members combined. But I am also keenly aware of their shortcoming. I have not had the pleasure of sailing on a H49 - but have read your posts in the past and consider your opinion educated, experienced, and valid. I am not calling the boat you sail in question, I am criticizing the old Hunters and the new Benes and Catalinas. Still - there a bunch of them out there and people are buying them. So they must be doing somethign right, huh?

Fair Winds,

- CD
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  #45  
Old 11-21-2008
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Mike...We had this discussion when you were building your boat as I recall! Anyway...I seem to remember that only THREE of the existing Hunter fleet were designed and built from the ground up by henderson. Now you say the whole fleet has been Re-done? I don't think that many new boats have been introduced...and it appears to me that a number of models are still the old designs. (No criticism of the 49 intended or implied!) Just trying to get a clarification.
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  #46  
Old 11-21-2008
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Originally Posted by camaraderie View Post
Mike...We had this discussion when you were building your boat as I recall! Anyway...I seem to remember that only THREE of the existing Hunter fleet were designed and built from the ground up by henderson. Now you say the whole fleet has been Re-done? I don't think that many new boats have been introduced...and it appears to me that a number of models are still the old designs. (No criticism of the 49 intended or implied!) Just trying to get a clarification.
My informed sources tell me that all fourteen models from the 216 on upwards that are currently being produced by Hunter have been designed by Glenn Henderson. He started the process in 1998.
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  #47  
Old 11-21-2008
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Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice Giulietta is just really nice
ehehehehheh

I find it amuzing that the one of the Asian boats the Tartan guy (you know who, so I am not saying his name in case he decides to sue me too)...so vividly talks about scored over his 5300...
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  #48  
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Thanks for the update Mike. I will disagree with you that Hunter quality improved from 1998 on. I have seen enough of their new boats in that period to know that while designs may have changed...they were still building to that 1990's standard until recently...if I had to guess, I'd say that around 2004-2005 they really began to address some of the quality issues and I think it will be a few more years yet before we can truly say that the newer boats have stood up well to hard use...though your own testimony about the factory and some of the testing they are now undergoing bodes well for a change in opinion by many. The good news is that no matter what quality they built to over the years...they always remembered to take care of their customers and so have a very loyal base.
So...we can agree that Henderson and his team have made a difference while disagreeing a bit on how far back that difference goes.

That said...what the hell were they thinking with the new 50!!
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  #49  
Old 11-22-2008
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I'm guessing none of you Catalina-bashers were in Port Aransas to see a Catalina win the Harvest Moon Regatta. Y'all really need to get over it.
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I'm guessing none of you Catalina-bashers were in Port Aransas to see a Catalina win the Harvest Moon Regatta. Y'all really need to get over it.
What was the competition, an Elko hay wagon? (g)
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