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  #151  
Old 12-01-2008
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Please don't let all the new found power rush to your head...
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Telstar 28
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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  #152  
Old 12-01-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Everyone,

First of all, let me say this: Do not blame Sailnet. They did what they had to do. They contempleted this matter for a long time and we had many discussions over it, including a very lengthy conference call. It seems we have a flawed system in our country... very flawed. You can file a lawsuit for almost nothing, but the cost of defense is extraordinary. By the thime you have retained a law firm (one that is decent), and given them 400 posts to read and let them review previous cases, etc, you will be looking at some HUGE bills. Would they have won? I certainly believe so. But at what cost? And to who?

Would YOU have potentially laid someone off at Christmas and the holidays? Would you have risked closing down the board? Would you have pulled your board/officers away from trying to make the most out of sales in a tough time to coming up with defnse strategies? Also remember that when you win, you have won nothing. You could counter sue - but what would you gain? Tartan apparently has more lawsuits than they can shake a stick at and is trying to sell itself off. Honestly - what would you have won?

Virtuous decisions are easy when they are free and without conscequence. When they are not, you must stand back and weigh your decisions with the reprocussions. This was not just about standing up for right or wrong. Again, I do not blame Sailnet. I would have begrudgingly made the same decision. So would George.

George is a great friend and was an outstanding moderator. He spent more time on this board than almost any other member. He definitely took the bulk of the moderating duties - but did so with pleasure. I support his decisions 100%. Of course he knows this. I am simply glad I was able to rope him into helping me as long as he did.

Thanks again, my friend,

Brian

I continue to be impressed by the quality of the writing and the thoughts expressed by our moderators. CD, I struggled with writing something similar to what you just wrote this morning, but I never posted it because I couldn't get it to sound right. You just said it better than I could have hoped to. Thanks.

We all can debate the pros and cons of our legal system until the cows come home, but it is what it is, and nothing we say or write will change the repercussions of Sailnet's decision. Many Sailnetters have posted to this forum about how "spineless" and "thoughtless" Sailnet was in "caving in". However, the only people who are in a position to truly judge Sailnet's actions here (Cam and CD) have both said that they agree with the decision, as distasteful as they may find it.
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  #153  
Old 12-01-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Bearing a grudge against someone else for your own actions, as usual. You did it with Alex and now with George. You must be a wonderful person to hang around with.

- CD
Brian,
AE did ask for his account to be deleted. I vote you grant him his wish.

AE, if your still around. It's okay you don't need to give two weeks notice to quit. Just go.

Michael
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  #154  
Old 12-01-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxLnghrn View Post
Brian,
AE did ask for his account to be deleted. I vote you grant him his wish.

AE, if your still around. It's okay you don't need to give two weeks notice to quit. Just go.

Michael
Michael,

I responded to him in that thread.

Brian
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  #155  
Old 12-01-2008
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Cam,
It was an honor to have you as the moderator for this board. We will all be sad to see your tenure end. I hope you really will stay around to let us share your wealth of knowledge.

ALL,
Maybe we should all contact said boat manufacturer using our own channels and let them know that most of their prospective customers feel that thier actions were lowly and less than honorable. Maybe they should think about improving their product instead of attacking critics.
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  #156  
Old 12-01-2008
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I am also very sorry to see Cam step down. He was a "flagship" here for Sailnet as a moderator; and I can't think of anyone who would do so well as a non-biased and even-handed replacement as Cam.

On the issue of Sailnet pulling the thread; well I can see both sides. While freedom of speech is a fundamental right in the US; well most of the slander/libel laws are there to protect companies from non-truthful accounts by the "freedom" of others to speak. And nowadays a company can simply make a threat to sue and get results because of associated legal costs. I'm not saying this is "right" but it is a reality of our legal system and without the ability to sue (tort reform) there would also be no balance for those who have problems with the actions of companies like "Brand-X" boat mfr. We live in a society where there IS freedom of speech; but it better be truthful! I think that our ability to speak freely has only been improved with the internet and forums who are willing to provide a forum like Sailnet; and we should be thankful (this is Thanksgiving BTW) that we do have these freedoms because so much of the world in this 21'st century still does not.

We need to take a step back and look at the potential for what could have happened if Sailnet did not pull the thread; we would all be without a forum, and it is -very possible- that some people who posted to the thread in question would be getting sued personally via the Sailnet disclaimer (your posts belong to YOU and are not the opinion of Sailnet). It's very important to remember this in your future posts; whatever company you bad-mouth could potentially come back at you with a libel suit. Sailnet has no control over the actions of outside companies and without completely dis-allowing discussion of products they simply can't protect themselves much less us from the litigious world. I think it was a wise decision for Sailnet to pull that thread, save them-self as a company, preserve the Sailnet Community, and protect some members from personal lawsuits. In doing this they may have conceded the battle over our freedom to speak on that particular issue; but they have preserved our ability to speak freely about everything else! Personally I think "Brand-X" boat mfr should go belly up at this point before they finish ruining the names of respected former boat builders; and with actions against their own customer base it will not be too long before they do.

Last edited by KeelHaulin; 12-01-2008 at 02:28 PM.
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  #157  
Old 12-01-2008
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While it is certainly possible to go after each individual poster, it is unlikely except in the most obvious case of libel or slander, because they would have to start those legal proceedings without knowing who they were trully going after just to get the users personal info from SailNet.
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  #158  
Old 12-01-2008
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I think. we that are going to be at the boat show in Chicago could wear T-shirts that read : Ask me why I won't buy a Tartan.
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  #159  
Old 12-01-2008
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Cam - you will be missed. As most of my time on sailnet has been searching and reading prior threads, your posts have been consistently well thought out and insightful and have been a big help to someone relatively new to sailing and this forum.
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  #160  
Old 12-01-2008
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Also, a corporation is generally going to go after whomever has the deepest pockets... so they'd most likely target the company rather than the individual members.
Quote:
Originally Posted by werebeagle View Post
While it is certainly possible to go after each individual poster, it is unlikely except in the most obvious case of libel or slander, because they would have to start those legal proceedings without knowing who they were trully going after just to get the users personal info from SailNet.
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Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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